Space Wolves Q: Jaws of the World Wolf and Arjac's Ranged Thunderhammer attack

[Dingareth]

And as you can read over on mkerr's blog, I disagree with him, as the Foehammer profile never states that there's any additional benefits beyond just the profile listed.

[mkerr]

And as you can read over on mkerr's blog, I disagree with him, as the Foehammer profile never states that there's any additional benefits beyond just the profile listed.

Of course it wouldn't be listed in the weapon profile, it's not an "Additional Weapon Characteristics".

It's a Thunder Hammer.

[DarkLink]

While I question your interpretation, I'll grant that there is enough grey area to get away with that argument. On one hand, the Foehammer is given a specific profile that does not include the stunning effect. On the other, it doesn't say whether or not the Foehammer looses the Thunderhammer effect when Arjac goes all Wulfgar on his opponent.

Something to cover in the SW FAQ.

[Sam]

A thunder hammer is a close combat weapon, so it has no ranged effects. The Foehammer allows Arjac to use it as a ranged attack with the profile stated in the codex. It does not say that this ranged attack gains any benefit from being made by a thunder hammer. If it did, then it would, since it doesn't, it doesn't.

[Sam]

Also, why is a strength 10 ap 1 attack that hits on a 2+ not enough? Trying to make it reduce the target's initiative in order to make JotWW more effective is looking for cheese that isn't there.

[Vince]

If it doesnt list it in the rules on the entry in the codex i dont see how you can try to grey logic it into the game. If it was intended to lower int it would spell it out.

[AirHorse]

Kind of in slight agreement with mkerr here, the description of a thunderhammer doesnt limit its effects to close combat, just to when you suffer a wound from a thunderhammer, and foehammer is still a thunderhammer when it is thrown.

It is a pretty big grey area though, I dont think they even considered this(which is dumb considering there is a nasty spell in the same codex that it gives a great bonus to) and maybe they didnt want it to happen, but there is nothing in the rules that says a weapon has to have its special ability written into the profile.

[DarkLink]

It's one of those things that seems like it only works in the fluff and not in the rules, until you think about it a little. Mkerr's argument actually makes more and more sense as I think about it. I just had some initial skepticism.

[Kanaellars]

Actually, I dont think its a grey area at all.

Does the Foehammer reduce the initiative at which a model acts in CC? Yes? No? Maybe.

It doesnt matter.

JOTWW Doesnt care when you act in CC... it cares about your initiative. The TH doesnt change that.

It basically makes the targets initiative 4(1)

CC works off the ()

JOTWW works on the main number.

[Nabterayl]

Well, fair enough, but it certainly matters in other situations. For instance, if Arjac throws his hammer at you, successfully wounds you, and then charges you in CC ... what's your Initiative?

I'm with mkerr on this one, though. Thunder Hammer is never listed as a weapon attribute, like Rending is. It's just what the weapon is. Page 42 doesn't say "models that suffer an unsaved wound from a weapon with the thunder hammer attribute reduce their Initiative to 1 until the end of the next player's turn." It says "models that suffer an unsaved wound from a thunder hammer ... reduc[e] their Initiative to a value of 1 until the end of the next player's turn." The rule doesn't ask us to look at a weapon's profile. It asks us to look at whether or not the wound came from a thunder hammer.