Using Split fire to destroy vehicle then disembarked unit

[JMichael]

This one came up.

Unit has Split Fire (e.g. Deathwing Terminator Squad).
Split fire rule is on p42 and states that the unit makes a Ld test. If passed nominate 1 model to shoot. That model immediatly makes a shooting attack. After that attack has been resolved, resolve the shooting from the rest of the unit.

So, could the singe model fire at a transport, and assuming it was destroyed can the rest of the squad now fire on the unit that had been inside (and is now presumably disembarked or sitting in the crater)?


I feel they could as the first model's shooting is conmpletely resolved before the rest of the unit shoots.
At what point must the target be declared? Before any of the models shoot, or just before the particular elements (i.e. 1 model vs squad)?

[walrusman999]

Yes you should be able to attack the now disembarked unit. The shooting attacks are: Declare target> Measure range> Roll to hit> Roll to wound> Allocate wounds> roll for saves> remove casualties. So in essence you should be able to have the single model shoot a transport, potentially destroy it, and the rest of the squad shoots at the now disembarked unit because it hasn't declared who/what it is shooting yet.

[JMichael]

I completely agree.
But here the argument against doing this.

Snap Fire - 'When a unit that contains at least one model with this special rule shoots, one model in the unit can shoot at a different target to the rest of his unit.'

Note that it says when the unit 'shoots'.

p12 Shooting Sequence:
1. Nominate Unit to Shoot
2. Choose a target
3. Roll to Hit
4. Roll to Wound
5. Allocate Wounds & Remove Casualties

So if step 3 is the actual 'shooting' step then the target must already be chosen.

[Tynskel]

I believe the unit's shooting all happens at the same time, whether individual models are shooting at different targets or not. If they actually happen separately, then you could shoot the transport, then shoot the stuff inside with the rest of the terminators.

Another example is the Land Raider Power of the Machine Spirit. Again, they must be two valid targets at the time of firing.

[DarkLink]

A unit's shooting is simultaneous. At the time of the split fire, the unit inside is not yet disembarked, and thus isn't a viable target for the rest of the unit to shoot. Just because you resolve the split fire shot first doesn't mean it doesn't still count as being simultaneous.

[Aegwymourn]

I think you answered your own question when you listed the rule for Split Fire. The key words to me are resolved. You shoot one target with the split fire model all the way till it is resolved. Then shoot the squad at something else. To me it looks exactly like you can shoot a transport then once the split fire is resolved choose a different legal target (the now disembarked squad).

[JMichael]

On another note and to the argument that it all happens simultaneously (i.e. can't shoot the squad after the vehicle is destroyed)

What if I want to shoot the single weapon at squad A and the rest of my unit at Squad B (which is behind squad A and thus would normally have a 5+ obscured save). Single weapon kills Squad A. Would Squad B still get an obscured cover save because they were behind Squad A when the 1st weapon shot?

[JMichael]

A unit's shooting is simultaneous. At the time of the split fire, the unit inside is not yet disembarked, and thus isn't a viable target for the rest of the unit to shoot. Just because you resolve the split fire shot first doesn't mean it doesn't still count as being simultaneous.

It seems to me that the Special Rule - Split Fire provides special circumstances that alter the rule.

[walrusman999]

When a unit that contains at least one model with this special rule shoots, one model in the unit can shoot at a different target to the rest of his unit. To do so, the unit must first take a leadership test. If the test is failed, the unit shoots as normal. If the test is passed, choose one model in the unit and immediately make a shooting attack with it. Once this shooting attack has been resolved, resolve the shooting attacks made by the rest of the unit, which must be at a different target.

That is an exact quote from the rule book. Now for all those sticklers about the word "immediately," this would mean that the single individual, that can pick a different target, gets to shoot first. The single model is considered a separate unit because otherwise he would conform to the standard unit rules and be forced to shoot normally. The whole unit doesn't shoot simultaneously because you have to designate a separate target for the remaining unit individuals to shoot at.

Potentially i could also argue that the whole squad shoots at the transport, snapfire guy shoots first, blows up the transport, thus there is no more transport and the squad must choose a different target, IE the now disembarked squad.

[Nabterayl]

I think JMichael is right that this is an exception to the normal rule of simultaneous fire. I see no other way to read "Once this shooting attack is resolved."