BA Vanguard Vets

[Tynskel]

Has anyone one been trying BA Vanguard Vets with dual pistols (or at least a couple guys with dual pistols)?

I have been thinking about arming sgts in assault squads with dual flame pistols. Could possibly be a great offensive and defensive weapon.

[ElectricPaladin]

On the one hand, great defensive profile. 2d3 automatic hits in overwatch per dual pistol guy? 2 templates in the shooting phase? AND he doesn't lose the bonus attack in close combat? Awesome!

On the other hand, those attacks in close combat are pretty weak. Every dude with a pair of pistols is a dude without a power weapon. Unless your meta is full of weaker armor than mine, a vanguard vets squad with lots of dual pistols is going to have a hard time making those close combat wounds stick.

That said, that's why Vanguard Vets usually lose out to Sanguinary Guard in terms of power weapon delivery, so perhaps you're planning to use them differently.

Hm... overall, I think I don't know how to answer your question. Can you clarify a little more? What's the tactical use you imagine for your vets?

[Wolfshade]

I dusted of my VVs, 5 man, melta bomb, thunderhammer. They had one job take out a bassie, they landed, assaulted took the tank out then were promptly shot to death with melta and demo charges.

I'm not sure if it was worth it, but they did their job.

[Vindur]

It could work alright but the lack of armour piercing on the cc attacks could be a problem.
Also unless its in an FAQ gunslinger only works in the shooting phase so flame pistols will be d3 not 2d3

[Wolfshade]

It could work alright but the lack of armour piercing on the cc attacks could be a problem.
Also unless its in an FAQ gunslinger only works in the shooting phase so flame pistols will be d3 not 2d3

Don't forget that they would still have their krak grenades... well that would work vs. armour not so much against infantry

[Tynskel]

well, if you are going dual pistols, you are more relying on the double shots, impact attacks, and volume of attacks. 5 guys = 9 shots (sgt has a power weapon), 5 impacts, and 20 attacks. 34 'attacks' in one round is a lot (I am not considering the deep strike charge).

[plawolf]

I don't think it is worth if. The primary reason I take VV is for the HI, that means they would get one round of shooting in before they are stuck in CC, and even then, I sometimes hesitate to shoot some of my pistols,especially if I roll high for scatter and is only just in charge range as shooting could easily cost me the charge if I roll well, and if the enemy gets a full round of shooting in, the typically small VV squad will either be toast, or utterly ineffective at causing much damage even if they do survive by some miracle.

The debate on whether you get two pops in overwatch is beside the point IMO, since if your VVs are left out in the open, enemy charging is going to be the least of your problems.

In my view, storm shields and power weapons would be a far better use of the points. Those SS could make a massive difference when in comes to your squad surviving enemy overwatch, and they should alas help to keep your VVs alive much longer, and maybe even allow them to assault a second squad.

If you want jumpy shooters, joust go dual plasma guns in RAS, you can even give the Serg a plasma pistol or two if you feel like. Far more dakka for far fewer points, and they are also scoring too.

[kingsfan2099]

If you use Heroic Intervention you cannot shoot. Pg. 27 Codex BA. Putting power weapons and Storm Shields on a Vet squad can become very expensive very quickly. If you want to take VV I would tool them out to do one thing only and trying to make them survivable doesn't seem to be a good use of points. If you want them anti mech in which case you give them some melta bombs or melta guns or some power fists or a few of each or go anti infantry with maybe a couple plasma guns and a plasma pistol and a few power weapons, again this can get very expensive and I think you may be better off taking an assault squad tooled out the way you want. Just be careful putting to many points into those Vets.

[Tynskel]

I was thinking flamer pistols would be the way to go: Bolt Pistol and Flamer. Give the Sgt. a Glave Encarmine Axe and Storm Shield. 225 points

225 Blood Angels Vanguard Veterans
5 Marines, Sgt. w/Glaive Encarmine (Axe) and Storm Shield, 4 w/Bolt Pistols and Flamer Pistols

Not too terribly expensive. Hit the ground, charge something weak. Then just bounce around the board. Seems to me that you would just need to make sure there are plenty of targets to make your opponent think there's something more important to shoot. They would make a great support squad for Drop Podding tacticals.

I also like the sgt with an axe n' shield. Makes a fun character killer.
If you get Sanguinor, there's always the possibility of having a mini-captain. Although, the initiative boost might make him worth taking a lightning claw.

[Anggul]

The thing is, for that cost you can have a full squad of 10 Assault Marines with 2 Flamers, Power Weapon and Hand Flamer. That's better in almost all cases and can score without The Scouring. Vanguard Vets aren't really worth it even with Heroic Intervention, because you could just shoot the enemy squad from afar with the same effect and not inevitably lose the squad that did it.

Kelly didn't do much right in the Space Wolves codex, but what he definitely did get right was that Veterans (in that case Wolf Guard) should not pay as many points for combat weapons as squad leaders. It just makes them massively over-priced for what they are. It should be 10pts at most to give a Veteran a Power Weapon. My Incubi laugh in marine Veteran's general direction and I feel sorry for them.