CC Guard

[zanzibarthefirst]

How successful can a guard army be based on CC. At the moment I'm looking at using a high number of priests and commissars, along with Straken and possibly an imperial assassin.

Other than rough riders and orgyns, what things woudl be need to make such an army either fun to play or competive, or both if possible

[Kaney]

From a competitive stand point IG can be ok at defensive CC. Large mixed infantry squads with power weps and commisars, backed by stracken goodness. Rough riders are ok but it will take alot of work to get the most out of them. Ogryns are simply to expensive.

Aggresive CC guard does not work. Sorry dude.

[Silver]

hi, interesting concept.

i think chimeras will help a lot, they can be used to funnel the enemy into sizable chunks to be assaulted. you may need to soften the enemy up with short-range assault weapons before the charge though

think about giving the rough riders a melta bomb sergeant, giving a 18" threat bubble that you can target stationary tanks with.

also, use power fists instead of power weapons, theyre going to do a lot more damage, especially if theyre wounding on 2s as opposed to 5s (T4). and counter assault from straken means 2 attacks.
then again, power weapons on the charge with straken will give a strength 4 hit, not bad with 3 attacks

only concern is dedicated assault troops, which you will need to counter-assault with rough riders

definitely with the assasin though IMO, any temple will greatly increase the effectiveness of this army
vindicare - take out power weapons/flamers in opponents army
callidus - 'a word in your ear' puts enemy in disarray, reducing their heavy firepower to kill your troops initially
culexus - commissars combat 'soulless', and pull down opponents LD so enemy falls back after an assault (does stubborn nullify soulless???)
eversor - crazy good in this case, either as a counter attack, or you can use rough riders to bolster his assault

- Silver

[RocketRollRebel]

Its a fun concept but I wouldn't expect it to be tournament wining. We just arnt built for that kinda fighting and more often than not those pts put into bumping up CC could be better spent on guns.

Okay now for my less douchey and more constructive comments You are on the right track with commissars, Priests, Ogryn, and rough Riders. No one wants to get stuck on a blob of 30-50 stubborn guardsmen and then be hit by Ogryn or Rough Riders. I'd recommend sprinkling power weapons in on the sgts and the attached commissar as well. Also Straken is almost essential to any CC style IG list.

[Confuddled]

Ogryns, Straken and Rough Riders make great counter-assault elements.
A Commissar Lord can really help keep the Ogryns in the fight.

Once you start messing around with infantry squads, however, it gets tricky.

They make for amazing tarpits, and in theory, a large squad can dish out a ridiculous number of attacks.


1) The biggest obstacle, however, is one of geometry.

a) Trying to bring all those attacks to bear can be challenging, especially when it comes to the embedded power weapons – it’s a lot easier bringing 20,30,40 Guardsmen within rapid-fire range of a target unit that it is to get them within 3” of an enemy model…

b) Same thing applies to getting all those embedded power weapons into the combat zone.

c) There’s also the problem of clearing enough space for the Ogryns and/or Rough Riders to charge in.

You can help alleviate the problem somewhat by spreading out your deploying, but between Defenders React and post-combat pile in moves, when you’ve got 20+ Guardsmen left alive in the squad, there’s a very good chance that the target unit will be completely surrounded by regular grunt troopers…



2) Second biggest problem with an assault-oriented Guard army? Complete lack of S8+ attacks once you do get it stuck in.

S4-S6 can help, as can sheer volume of attacks, but its just embarrassing when an assault-oriented army (so-called) can find itself completely locked down by things like Ironclads and Wraithlords…

[Confuddled]

On further reflection, it might be entertaining having 20 or so Ogryns charging straight down the middle of the table, dragging a Commissar Lord along kicking and screaming.

10 charging Ogryns were a heck of a distraction for the opposition, drew silly amounts of fire and ended up having a grand old time before they got hammered apart. I imagine 16-20 Ogryns might be even more distracting…

In the meantime, the usual mainstays of the Guard army (autocannons, multi-lasers and melta-toting Veterans) can concentrate on cracking open all those pesky tin cans so the Ogryns can get at the chewy contents…

[Chumbalaya]

CC Guard can totally work, nobody will see it coming :P

Take Straken, mobs of Guardsmen (meltas, melta bombs, power weapons everywhere) led by Commissars and Priests, the requisite fire support (HWS, Vets in Valks/Vends/Chims, Russes, etc) and maybe some allied GKs for a little extra punch. RR and Ogryns kinda suck, so don't bother.

[zanzibarthefirst]

I wodul ahve thought that Orgyns and RR would ahve made good counter attack unuits, especially RR since their speed allows them to have a much greater threat range.

At the moment my army is goign to be 3 different armies; my CC catachans, my melta veterans for Elysia and some grey knights.

[Chumbalaya]

Problem with Ogryns is cost and general suckitude. Sure they can take it, but they cost an arm and a leg for basic attacks. Rough Riders are a one hit wonder that doesn't even do that well enough.

[RocketRollRebel]

Problem with Ogryns is cost and general suckitude. Sure they can take it, but they cost an arm and a leg for basic attacks. Rough Riders are a one hit wonder that doesn't even do that well enough.

I agree. I'd take Ogyrn maybe in a CC list but they do tend to take a dare I say... Ogryn-sized bite out of your points and dont seem to have much in terms of killing power vs MEQ units.