How "Random" in Daemons SHOULD Have Been

[Caitsidhe]

Hindsight is 20/20 they say. Here is my two cents, which are probably worth even less than that. With Daemons being designed as a hordes army, any further rule which bogs down the game should have been avoided or minimized. Games Workshop, for some reason, have concluded that people really like bogging down. They appear to have assumed that the last ten years of people saying they DON'T like it is really a case of "methinks the lady dost protest too much." Oh, well... go figure. I'm not against all random. I'm for doing it in a way which doesn't slow down the game and by which the players have some control over events.

Random elements, for the most part, should have been determined at the start of the game.

*By this I mean the countless variations should have been determined (via gambling) before the start of the game as they are in the new CSM book. Daemons, being even more chaotic, should have possible greater gains and losses, but only one roll should be used to determine these things for the duration of a given game. I would have created a rule called Warpstorm for all Daemons. There would have been three charts called LOW RISK, MEDIUM RISK, and HIGH RISK. At the start of the game, each unit must roll on one of the charts (player's choice). The rewards and penalties are determined by the chart selection. The "Low Risk" Chart would statistically result in no benefit far more often and have gentle punishments or perks scaling on the roll. The "Medium Risk" and "High Risk" respectively would increase the potency of the rewards and punishments as well as scale up the probability of getting them. Think of it as a bit like Dark Eldar combat drugs, wherein the player gambles. Either way rolls and gambling is done up front as is the marking/tracking. It should be noted that this is still extra work. It will still take an investment of time.

If I were doing this (as above) I would also have created God-specific charts. Why not? That way if you use Nurgle Daemons they get to roll on the Nurgle Low, Medium, and High charts. I would have dumped the random roll every shooting round entirely and had some of the potential rewards and punishments cover those things. For example, one unit might have rolled the penalty on High Risk which means any Demonic Instability test it takes is at a reduced Leadership (or perhaps adds a die against them). Perhaps a reward to a Tzentch unit is that any Deny the Witch roll that succeeds requires the attacking non-Daemon Psycher to make that Leadership test on 3D10 or be removed and a new Herald arrives. You get the idea. This, at least, would not only have kept these element but it would also have made it less irksome to people you play against. They could choose NOT to try to use their powers on a given unit rather than just starting the game and losing a Character for no other reason than a die roll.

[fuzzbuket]

like the old daemonhosts, they were fun.

*retreats back to the fortress of 'i hate mat ward'*

[sangrail777]

I think you are wrong. I think you do not understand chaos. I think you want control. That is no choas. Randon is a way to express chaos. This is not just a game we play. Fluff matters. The writers see that and that is why the codexes are the way they are. You don't get it. Thats ok, just don't play chaos and stop crying when chaos kicks you butt and the world will be a happy place.

[White Tiger88]

This codex is amazing why are you already complaining about it when there's no way you could of tried it all out?

[Jax]

There are a lot of complaints out there, not that I agree with them though - just check out HERO's review of the new Codex [URL="http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2013/03/40k-review-chaos-daemons.html"]here[/URL], there is a lot of rage out there for some reason. But also some rather clever insights, such as the fact that the book is meant to be Chaos incarnate is thus, extremely chaotic - and yes, it is a very fluffy Codex and I wholly appreciate the direction theyre taking the game in.

[OrksOrksOrks]

The raging is just the tournament players annoyed that GW are moving the game back to what it was always supposed to be, its fluffy and fun and they hate it because its hard to make a list to dominate others with these rules.

[White Tiger88]

There are a lot of complaints out there, not that I agree with them though - just check out HERO's review of the new Codex [URL="http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2013/03/40k-review-chaos-daemons.html"]here[/URL], there is a lot of rage out there for some reason. But also some rather clever insights, such as the fact that the book is meant to be Chaos incarnate is thus, extremely chaotic - and yes, it is a very fluffy Codex and I wholly appreciate the direction theyre taking the game in.

wow that's a pretty bad review of a book that is great fun and if used right is very, very powerful! So great fluff, awesome rules and neat models.....Should give the book a 8\10! (And this is from someone who only likes slaanesh!).

The raging is just the tournament players annoyed that GW are moving the game back to what it was always supposed to be, its fluffy and fun and they hate it because its hard to make a list to dominate others with these rules.

Hmmm it doesn't seem that hard to make a really mean list with this book just.....Iffy if the list will blow its self up making your enemy have a great laugh or destroy your opponent giving you the great laugh.

Edit:Lets not forget this is Chaos, it should be random!

[Learn2Eel]

I don't mind it myself. Having seen what the old Realm of Chaos books were like - compilations that were well loved - I think this is very much a heartful throw-back to the hey-days of the hobby. I perfectly understand why many don't like this approach, but to me, I'm really liking it. That all three of this editions' new armies are very well balanced internally and externally against each other speaks volumes to me, even if Daemons do appear - even in these early stages - to be the strongest of the trio.

[OrksOrksOrks]

Its also hilarious when you consider that he's had the book for about 2 days before he wrote that review, same as everyone else who is raging, they probably haven't really read the book or tried out many games with it

[spaceman91]

I think that review was a bit harsh. All the stuff he didn't like sounded fun. I'm not saying he's wrong ( it's his views and he has as much right to express them as i do) but he's wrong. I like the random stuff it's fun. His thoughts on record keeping, not once have i had a problem keeping track of anything. Hull points i have mini dice that i put on top of my tanks and on the bases of my flyers. Warlord traits easy these i just remember ( i know some people who just make a note on a bit of paper. Apart from that what do you need to track of? Really don't understand the need to moan about everything. If you don't like it don't buy it/ use it then theres no problem. Rant over.