The Horus Heresy Book Series...

[Wildeybeast]

Sad no? depressing? feel betrayed? feel lost? Like the sun might not ever shine again? Feel that evil runs rampent through the streets? Good. I'm glad. Then the Horus Heresy is what it should be. This is not a time for hope, nor a time of heroes. This is the time of betrayal, the time of sadness. You want hope? You want the light? Wait and some day they will tell the tail of Sanguinius. The day when all alone he stands through the nightmare that is chaos and punches a hole in the armor of Horus. Then we wil hope and dream. Then the Emporer will come and kill Horus usesing that hole in the armor. You see this is not the time for hope, this is the time of betrayal and there is no hope in betrayal. Welcome to the Horus Heresy. And know why 10,000 years later there is no forgivness, no peace, only war and the laughter of thirsting gods.

This. A perfect summary of what the series is. From day one, we all knew the basics of this story and how it ended. The challenge was going to be making the characters interesting enough that you want to read it despite knowing what happens to them in the end. The defiant stand of the loyalists against the odds on Istvaan 3 was made all the poignant for me by the fact that you knew the characters you had grown to love over three books were going to die. It was the manner with which they met that end that mattered.

The whole point of the grimdark setting of 40k is that the good guys don't win. They survive, they cling to existence for another day in a probably futile struggle. It's also arguable that calling the mindless minions of the space marines who happily carry out the Emperor's genocide without pause for thought the good guys is stretching the thought of it somewhat.

[Cap'nSmurfs]

Some authors areworse than others for this. I think also its because they're still only just covering the early stages of thhe Heresy - and boy does that go badly for the loyalists! They'll have some victories along the way, though: the Ultramarines break out of their warpstorm trap having kicked the remaining Word Bearers sevenways to sunday, and then get to spend the Scouringwreckingeveryone's ****. The Space Wolves will break their trap too. The Lion, we already know, kebabs Curze and his Legion smashes the Night Lords in a big space battle. The White Scars cut Little Horus' face off and make him look like a prize fool.

And then there's the siege itself, which is going to be pretty harrowing, but also full of loyalist heroism on a truly magnificent scale.

It's a problem with the Heresy: you know the narrative. Despite it all, the Traitors reach Terra and the cusp of victory before being defeated. If they follow the series into the Scouring andthe birth of the Imperium we knowthe balance will be addressed. It's only after Horus' defeat that the loyalists win the war.

As I've said, though,some authors are worse than others. A D-B is very good at making sure the traitors take meaningful losses and giving the Loyalists heroic moments. Without spoiling too much, Betrayer heavily features boththe discipline and courage of the Ultramarines used to great effect, and the animal cunning and ferocity of the Space Wolves too. A certain Loyalist Primarch shows up to royally ruin Lorgar's day. And in the end, you're really left questioning the validity of a lot of traitor 'victories': they lose so much, and so much of themselves, that it's really hard to call it winning. It's always falling deeper.

[Lord Lorne Walkier]

This. A perfect summary of what the series is. From day one, we all knew the basics of this story and how it ended. The challenge was going to be making the characters interesting enough that you want to read it despite knowing what happens to them in the end. The defiant stand of the loyalists against the odds on Istvaan 3 was made all the poignant for me by the fact that you knew the characters you had grown to love over three books were going to die. It was the manner with which they met that end that mattered.

The whole point of the grimdark setting of 40k is that the good guys don't win. They survive, they cling to existence for another day in a probably futile struggle. It's also arguable that calling the mindless minions of the space marines who happily carry out the Emperor's genocide without pause for thought the good guys is stretching the thought of it somewhat.

I understand why you feel the way you do but disagree. I am a huge fan of the Loyalist perspective. When the bad guys succeed it sickens me. To say that you know the good guys you fall in love with are going to die is just wrong. The writers do want to make you feel that way however, this has been true from the Rogue Traders days. What we know about the Horus Heresy has been until recently, "History". And because the good guys won the war they got to write it. I think those in charge of that writing decided that it was in their interest to lie to the masses about the Heresy in a number of ways. The War on Istvaan III is a great example.

We have been led to believe that Loyalists died to a man, and that tragedy has cast a dark shadow on every thing that came after. The Problem is that is was not true, pure Propaganda. We know that Loken lived. From the Forge world book Betrayal, we know that a group of Death Guard also made it off world and fought on. Add what i think will happen when Tarvitz shows up alive and the idea that the Loyalists were "Wiped out" turns out to be far form the truth. Even if you reject the idea of Tarvitz and Co living, Loken and the Death Guard surviving and that knowledge being hidden form the populace(and us) has got to be intentional. Why would they want people to think that the war on Istavaan III was a total loss? I think the calculation was if people knew that not all the surviving Traitor Legions were evil that it might give room for some sympathy. Some might think that the traitors could be saved and might not give them the proper amount of hate. Also if it became known that there were Loyalist survivors the traitors might use this information to their advantage. Since they don't know Loken and others lived they can't properly counter his effect on the future. The information and effort the Survivors can provide might have been the difference in the war. The Warmaster needed to completely wipe out the loyalists on Istavaan III to win and he needed to do it quickly. He succeeded in neither. Horus knew he needed to do these things, that is why he used the Virus Bombs. The classic problem with loose ends... This is why he used them when the Loyalists were fully engaged with the Istvannians. Even though he knew that when you use bombs to kill form afar that some vermin would survive. If Tarvitz had not smelled out the plot he would have succeed.

I think it is the Traitor lovers who have the best gripe with the Win / loss ration shown in the series thus far. In addition to Istavaan III, we have the real survival rate of Istvaan V, Thousands of Raven Guard, not 3.. The beat down the Night Lords took form the Dark Angles. The Iron Warrior on Iron Warrior war on Lesser Damantyne. The Furious Abyss. Sure the traitors get more then their fair share of wins but they had the Initiative, surprise and treachery on their side. As was said before if they did not have their Wins we would not have had the final battle on Terra.

Sorry i just cant get on board with the Grim Dark. Its always darkest before the dawn

[morninson]

I agree that it looks like a lot more loyalists than we think survived Istvaan. But it's still a surprise when a ship with hundreds of Iron Hands, Salamanders and Raven Guard turn up in a book, oh and they know of at least 25 more. When you know there is so few left it spoils it when they start dying in droves (again).

I liken it to the siege at Helms Deep, it's like that lasting for four years and I'm getting sick of waiting for Gandalf and the Rohirrim to turn up and smash some face.

[CarcharodonAstra]

I think the HH series is the only series where i have re-read the books and found something that i skipped over the last time i read it.

The alpha legion book is a prime example of this. I would read the series in order but i am not going to read mechanicus because they bore the crap out of me.

[Wildeybeast]

I think the HH series is the only series where i have re-read the books and found something that i skipped over the last time i read it.

The alpha legion book is a prime example of this. I would read the series in order but i am not going to read mechanicus because they bore the crap out of me.

You really should, it's one of the best ones.

[CarcharodonAstra]

You really should, it's one of the best ones.

Meh, i read one of the short stories in Shadows of Treachery and i didn't like it it.

[Wildeybeast]

Mechanicum is really good. For a start it has that 'ooh, a book not about marines' feel to it that Nemesis has. Secondly it is well written and thirdly it has several 'hints' at some of the long standing background mysteries. Plus it has robots fighting (but in a good way, not a Transformers movie way).

[Alan Connell]

Sad no? depressing? feel betrayed? feel lost? Like the sun might not ever shine again? Feel that evil runs rampent through the streets? Good. I'm glad. Then the Horus Heresy is what it should be. This is not a time for hope, nor a time of heroes. This is the time of betrayal, the time of sadness. You want hope? You want the light? Wait and some day they will tell the tail of Sanguinius. The day when all alone he stands through the nightmare that is chaos and punches a hole in the armor of Horus. Then we wil hope and dream. Then the Emporer will come and kill Horus usesing that hole in the armor. You see this is not the time for hope, this is the time of betrayal and there is no hope in betrayal. Welcome to the Horus Heresy. And know why 10,000 years later there is no forgivness, no peace, only war and the laughter of thirsting gods.

this is absolutley spot on, and tbh if you missed this point then you have missed the whole point of the heresy and 40k, even the heroes as we call em ar complete psychotic xenophobic, genocidilly inclined fanatics, who from a perspective are the bad guys as they subjigate, enslave murder and destroy their own race in the name of the god emperor. no one is the good guys and thats why the setting appeals, its all about the ambiguity between shades of black and white and greys.

the whole point is there is no hope, there is only the slow death of humanity and the eventual triumph of chaos, just as the cabal said in the book legion to alpharius

[T-bud]

You really should, it's one of the best ones.

When I read that one it took me a couple of weeks to read the first 100 pages but then it clicked and I couldn't put it down.