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  1. #991
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    Different people like different things, some people loved the abstratcion of 3rd Ed Epic, some hated it, as 40kGamer said, the 4th edition, Epic Armageddon, was arguably the better system. Some will swear 3rd edition WFB was the best (look at the Oldhammer community) while some will say 4th or 5th. (Its generally which ever was out when you were 11 until you started caring more about trying to get laid than model soldiers)

    A lot of it is nostalgia, if you're in your mid 30s, then 3rd ed Epic was new and changed the game you knew from your childhood (I suspect Erik is in this camp, the fact he's in a childish tantrum over AoS shows he's not matured since then)

    Some people thought both 3rd edition 40K and Epic was great because it streamlined the game, abstracting everything to the bare bones and making a really quick, easy to pick up game. Some hated it for removing the detail. You can't please everyone.

    The Games Workshop that did that to 40k was the one that made 3rd Ed Epic too, they've changed since then, look at 40k now, they're adding more and more to it, less abstract rules, more like second edition, heck we can even through grenades now.

    If GW are going to change the game, they're going to add more fidelity to it because thats the pattern we've been seeing for over a decade now, a slow return to more detailed game mechanics and so now people are calling it overly complicated and bloated.

    You can't please everyone.

  2. #992

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    And then there are those who refuse to be pleased, and insist on picking holes, oftentimes by changing up their demands. And pretending they didn't.
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  3. #993

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Mystery View Post
    And how many years ago was that?

    If we're still worrying about stuff that we worried about decades ago, I'd still be worried about when puberty would hit (1994 as it happens), would I ever get a bird (yes) amongst myriad other things.
    It's a valid point to bring up when people say, "Well, GW's never done wrong when changing rules sets." They did once. And in that case I don't think it was a major move to try to salvage a 30-year-old game that somehow got run into the ground.

    If you don't have a counter to a point, you don't have to make up something completely missing the point in an attempt to mock it.

  4. #994

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    I think you need to flag your points more, as all I'm reading is doomsaying negativity because GW once did something you didn't quite take to that one time which has clearly set a precedent even though it was only that one time.

    As others have said, whilst I too enjoyed Space Marine and Titan Legions a great deal, Epic Armageddon was a solid rule set.
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  5. #995

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildeybeast View Post
    Does anyone have any actual news or rumours? Every time I check its either prophecies of doom or folks being super hyped. I haven't heard anything to evoke either reaction yet.
    There's no news or rumors to report.

    The rumors out there can evoke a wide variety of reactions. Perhaps you missed them? One set was of some crazy series of changes not just to the background but also how the game plays, which sounds like it could possibly be a pretty fun game but wouldn't be Warhammer any more. Another set described relatively minor changes to gameplay (and made round bases sound even more questionable) and possibly big changes to background, which sounds kind of like what the game needed in terms of rules, but still iffy on the potential background.

    Then throw in the confusion on whether AoS is actually a new game, or just some kind of "game-in-a-box." The latter would be a bit of a waste, but seems incredibly unlikely given that all current WFB starters, rulebooks, army books, End Times books, movement trays, cards, and counters have been pulled from shelves. Some rumors claimed (laughably) that such a move was temporary based on GW trying to sell remaining stock via their website and store managers being willing to sell remaining books so as not to just chuck them without people getting a last chance to buy them, but news has also come out that those products are no longer up for restock. So if we aren't getting a new game soon, that's some sales being lost.

    And that's pretty much what's been out there. Conflicting stuff. Some sounds good, some sounds bad, it's hard to know for sure, but I don't see why it's a crime to be cautious about it and not get too hyped right now.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Mystery View Post
    I think you need to flag your points more, as all I'm reading is doomsaying negativity because GW once did something you didn't quite take to that one time which has clearly set a precedent even though it was only that one time.

    As others have said, whilst I too enjoyed Space Marine and Titan Legions a great deal, Epic Armageddon was a solid rule set.
    Epic Armageddon ended up being a bit too much "too little, too late," sadly. I never even saw it in stores, because interest in Epic scale had died so much. IIRC, they took the lessons learned with the reaction to E40K, and tried to make a better version, but so many people remembered the bad experience with E40K that EArm couldn't resuscitate the game. That's not to say EArm was bad, and I won't declare it as such (because it didn't sound bad). But it's kind of a footnote overall, unfortunately.

    That system did work out pretty good for BFG, though.

    You read "doomsaying" because I'm cautious and don't get overhyped. You want to be super-hyped before hand and claim GW never did anything wrong and everything they touch is golden, including the "Finecast" models sitting warped on store shelves? Fine. But that seems to taint your view so any criticism of GW, and anything less than "ERMAHGERD THIS NEW GAME WE KNOW NOTHING ABOUT IS GOING TO BE AMAZEBALLS" is "doom-saying." Which really just gets annoying after a while and does make me bitter.

  6. #996

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    Be bitter all you want - and I think you mastered that some time ago.

    And who mentioned Finecast? Or are you just shifting parameters to make it look less like you're just trying to neg everyone out and bring us down?
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  7. #997
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    Erik, if you were saying "I'm cautious about this change because I remember changes to systems that ended up making the hobby less enjoyable for me and my gaming group and I so I'm reserving judgement until I can see more of what’s happening" then yeah, that’s not doom saying.

    You're not doing that, you're in full on Chicken Little mode, the sky is falling because everything GW have ever done is to personally ruin your enjoyment of the game because they're incompetent and can't do anything right unlike all those other games systems and companies who treat their customers like revered Gods. You're saying everything new they've ever done has been terrible, bringing up things that happened 15 years ago by an almost totally different creative team as examples, using the admitted stop-gap product (so they could afford to still have non-plastic product on the shelves) as an example despite being utterly irrelevant. Inventing stories of this local game shop that you're totally in with and all your almost certainly fictitious friends play at who all hate GW just as much as you.

    You're a "hater", a classic example even, you are down on every single thing about GW and their games and yet, you apparently still think it’s appropriate to comment on things they're doing despite not actually being a customer.

    You don't give them money, you have no stake in this.

  8. #998

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    Anyways.

    WD teaser this week is a review of Warhammer so far.

    Dunno what that will involve beyond the startlingly obvious, but it would be the first non-Chrimbo week there hasn't been a new release.
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  9. #999
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    Side note: When you actually look at the design and game mechanics GW has never made a bad game. While I am not a fan of several of their games for various reasons it is a matter of taste rather than any of their games being unplayable.

    On the rumor front I don't know that any of these are necessarily new but here is what I gathered from a variety of sources.

    From my most reliable source I got this note that mirrors a lot of what we've heard already.

    "Warhammer hasn't been trashed. Age of sigmar is another fantasy game that continues the end times story line and is not 9th edition. All models you currently own will still be usable in the future with the new version of fantasy."


    I've received mixed messages from retailers... most now state that they were instructed to pull the WFB starter set and ALL ARMY BOOKS. This is the first time I remember GW pulling the entire game system in one fell swoop so 9th will be a complete rewrite, 8th is well and truly dead. I've also heard that several large WFB kits are not currently available for order through the FLGS. Not sure if this is do to reboxing or a sign that plastic kits may actually go the route of limited runs. On the flip side I have other retailers that say they do not have any model ordering restrictions yet... really weird.

    On the speculation front, I've had several long time industry people tell me that they expect new design aesthetics for all WFB races to bring them in line with GW's heightened desire for exclusive IP. I guess we may still be seeing the fallout from the Chapterhouse debacle. If true, this will be interesting... I can't really visualize how you can make the races in WFB distinct enough to make them rock solid IP.

    I'm hoping for a Warhammer Quest/Mordheim/Dreadfleet style game with Age of Sigmar. Guess we'll know soon enough.
    Last edited by 40kGamer; 06-22-2015 at 02:45 PM.
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  10. #1000
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    via [URL="http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?410190-A-celebration-of-Warhammer"]Sheriff of Nottingham[/URL] 6-22-2015

    Sent to me as a rumor:

    "A celebration of Warhammer will be a limited edition hardcover book with a look back at over 30 years of Warhammer. Lots of pictures of minis and classic illustrations as well as articles from the makers of the game."


    So a fan service for veterans.
    So, perhaps a Warhammer Fantasy retrospective equivalent to this:

    [URL="http://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Visions-of-the-Dark-Millenium"]Visions of the Dark Millennium[/URL]
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