GW to ban all online sales

[Caitsidhe]

An even funner can of worms Games Workshop has opened up here (and it will come up) is that apparently Games Workshop considers these Independents of paramount (or so they claim) importance for future growth and recruitment. Ok. If the independent stores (who sell OTHER product... not being Games Workshop stores) are doing this great favor for Games Workshop, how much are they getting paid? It sounds like Games Workshop itself is cutting back the number and size (and hours) of its stores everywhere. The stated purpose of these stores is to grow the brand, recruit, and so on. It appears very much like Games Workshop is cutting back their own overhead and costs, shifting recruitment and all that jazz in the United States on the Independents. If this is true, wouldn't the discount have to be even LARGER for these LGS than in the past when Games Workshop was doing a lot of this work to support the brand.

In short, Games Workshop isn't providing these gaming locations and all that goes into that. That overhead is footed by the LGS entirely. As a reward for that courtesy which helps Games Workshop FAR MORE than it does the LGS, they have now been told they cannot sell things the way they want to sell them, cannot sell overseas, and so on. So Games Workshop expects the LGS to absorb the costs, limit their profit options, or ELSE. Is that about right?

[Mr Mystery]

It's not terribly local if it's being sold internationally.

Last time around, when it was 'no bricks no models' it was at the behest of Indy stores that were being squeezed out by competitors that essentially grew from other people's hard work.

Imagine if you will, setting up your store, and doing your best to expand and retain your customer base. Then they stop buying from you because someone who doesn't offer facilities of any kind can sell 10% cheaper than you ever could. How much would that suck?

And I'm not saying this decision doesn't suck for anyone, clearly someone's just been given the poopy end of the stick. But there is a case for the right person having received it.

But again, doesn't affect me, so I have no real opinion on this.

[Caitsidhe]

It's not terribly local if it's being sold internationally.

This is the 21st Century. Everything is local. That is kind of the point of the internet.

Last time around, when it was 'no bricks no models' it was at the behest of Indy stores that were being squeezed out by competitors that essentially grew from other people's hard work.

I don't buy it was ever at their behest and certainly isn't at their behest this time. Couldn't the problem be solved by Games Workshop simply by giving actual brick and mortar locations (who are sacrificing with greater overhead to support and recruit for the hobby) an even LARGER discount? From the point of Games Workshop, selling wholesale to non-brick and mortar stores is no different than anybody else. Why would they want to LOWER their own sales? *This is why I don't buy their argument that they are doing this to defend those poor Independents. They could achieve the same goal by keeping wholesale prices the same for the net-presence only and give brick and mortar an even larger discount to reimburse them for their "giving back to the hobby."

Imagine if you will, setting up your store, and doing your best to expand and retain your customer base. Then they stop buying from you because someone who doesn't offer facilities of any kind can sell 10% cheaper than you ever could. How much would that suck?

The problem is that it doesn't work this way. In the United States there is a large amount of LGS loyalty. You pay where you play. Most people try to buy 1-2 things a month at their LGS that provides them tables, air conditioning, terrain, and so on. Even MORE to the point, independent stores in the US don't live or die by Games Workshop products. They tend to own a WIDE variety of product lines and support them all so no particular line failure puts them out of business. Most independents are moving toward (if they haven't already) having a Net presence also.

And I'm not saying this decision doesn't suck for anyone, clearly someone's just been given the poopy end of the stick. But there is a case for the right person having received it.

There is no case to be made because so far it hasn't happened at all. They have merely SAID it is going to happen mid June. That alone should send off alarm bells to cynics like me. Why not say it starts TOMORROW? The only reason to push it down the road is to try and get a rush of sales off the crass manipulation. This policy is a SALES STUNT and nothing more. Come June they will revise it, drop it, or simply leave it up and simply do nothing about it. They can say it all they want and never bother to try and enforce it (it isn't really possible anyway).

But again, doesn't affect me, so I have no real opinion on this.

I'm a blowhard that likes the sound of his own voice, so I have opinions on things whether they affect me or not. I also feel bad for people getting screwed even when they aren't myself.

[Mr Mystery]

You can offer a lower price to brick indies, but what if like many, they already have an online presence? Said savings are likely to be used to offer a large online discount, again hurting those without the savvy or indeed storage space to run their own website.

Could be a stunt as well, but I feel that's a bit too cynical for me.

My overall prediction? Interwebs will rage, and the world will continue to turn, GW will continue to make a profit.

[Caitsidhe]

You can offer a lower price to brick indies, but what if like many, they already have an online presence? Said savings are likely to be used to offer a large online discount, again hurting those without the savvy or indeed storage space to run their own website.

Exactly. I asked the question specifically so you would answer this. Now reverse it. See how impossible it is for Games Workshop to enforce either way? More to the point, why would Games Workshop even try? Let's say they actually create this secret police and accounting inquisition to fan out across the Americas and try to zing those who violate the policy. These people get cut off. What this amounts to is Games Workshop spends a LOT of money on enforcement that... if it works... reduces their sales.

Could be a stunt as well, but I feel that's a bit too cynical for me.

I am cynical and the fact that I locked on to the fact that it is a sales stunt (and it is) doesn't make the reasoning any less valid. Since Games Workshop doesn't profit by this policy in ANY WAY except by a short term sales boost, that is clearly all it is unless we want to assume they are stupid.

My overall prediction? Interwebs will rage, and the world will continue to turn, GW will continue to make a profit.

I agree for the most part. I'm not enraged. I find the whole thing funny as hell. I don't think the policy will do much of anything to the people who resell beyond annoy them. I don't think it will do much beyond annoy Games Workshop's customers either. Whether or not they keep making a profit remains to be seen. I think a gestalt of factors (and this policy would be only a minor one in it) is going to cut into their profits in a serious way.

[Mr Mystery]

Sounds quite easy to enforce. Just find the website and you're done!

Also quite puzzled as to why people feel this is something to do with CH, on account the whole issue there is that CH aren't selling GW stuff, just stuff made to resemble GW stuff? (Not meaning yourself, I've not seen you make that assertion on here)

[Caitsidhe]

Sounds quite easy to enforce. Just find the website and you're done!

Ummm? How does this do you any good? You find the website and say "tell me where you got your product!" They say, "get stuffed." If the website is not buying its goods through Games Workshop, i.e. it gets it through someone at a brick and mortar at wholesale via some kind of inside connection, finding the website is pointless (unless you want to order from them).

Also quite puzzled as to why people feel this is something to do with CH, on account the whole issue there is that CH aren't selling GW stuff, just stuff made to resemble GW stuff? (Not meaning yourself, I've not seen you make that assertion on here)

I've made the assertion that IF (and only if) Games Workshop is able to cut down on bits sales of their own parts, it would just send more people to companies that make compatible bits. In other words, Games Workshop would just be juicing up that other market more by their actions.

[Mr Mystery]

I kind of follow.

I do wonder how the CH thing is going. Thread in News has been quiet of late, barring the Bob Olley transcription thingy.

[scadugenga]

Is this actually price fixing though? Are GW telling people exactly the price it's to be sold at? Are GW conspiring with another manufacturer to set a minimum war game price? Nope.

GW remain within their rights to refuse service. This is not say, supermarkets covertly agreeing a maximum price they will pay for milk. Or anything like the Libor scandal here in Britain.

This is just a curious move, served in an Internet hyperbole sauce.

It's called "Vertical Price Fixing" and falls under the auspices of the Sherman Act (1890) and Clayton act (1914).

What Sharp, LG and CPT did was "Horizontal Price Fixing," and is different than what GW is doing, though the impact is identical if they are found guilty: treble damages plus court/atty fees. It cost Sharp, LG and CPT $585 Million.

While the Courts have started to say that Vertical Price Fixing is not a per se violation of the antitrust acts, it is now determined on a more individual basis.

[Mr Mystery]

Price fixing, a tango for two.

Required supplier and vendor to conspire.

So how is that at all relevant to GW choosing to limit who they supply to?