Released CODEX LEGIONS (fan-made)

[sirrouga]

Reading over the mini-dex I like quite a few of the concepts. Most of the items and abilities being pulled from actual resources is a nice touch and gives a reference point on why its there, some people may complain but going back to the original source on how that legion operated is a good way to start. However many of the abilities need to be updated to the current edition to provide a more balanced game (for both sides). Some abilities were too weak while others were incredibly strong.

Let me go down a quick list of some things that stick out to me...

Alpha Legion
I like your setup with these guys except the fact that you are required to take the more expensive troops at the same cost as Chosen. I say make this an optional upgrade so you don't end up wasting points for not outflanking with chaos marines with a rhino.

Iron Warriors
Update the Basilisk to the current IG version (Smaller min range) and correct the armor typos. I know in the older Iron Warriors you could "give up" 2 fast attack slots to gain an extra Heavy Support but 9 oblits are bad enough I rather not see 12 of them! Maybe if there was a limit on what you could take in that situation it would be alright. I like the rest of their stuff you have for them through so great there.

Night Lords
Almost perfect, I'm surprised they don't have Night Vision standard and you already said you fixed the way their cover bonus works. One thing I would be wary about is giving raptor troops Hit and Run, giving a scoring unit a way to escape close combat can be extremely powerful if used right and maybe you should only allow Raptors taken as fast attack choices to have this ability.

Word Bearers
My only issue was already bought up by an other poster and you said you have taken care of it already. So they're great so moving on!

World Eaters
Raptors being added is a good call but personal I don't think Havocs (or Oblits for that matter) belong in a World Eater's army. Its all about ripping apart the enemy and not caring about those silly things called "tactics" or "strategy". The rest of the upgrades listed make up much of the lost of these units. World Eaters are supposed to be close combat monsters, keep them that way. :P

Death Guard
You already taken care of the Plague Carrier so that takes out my biggest issue. About the Rhinos, in the older codex they were allowed to have two rhinos included in their troop choices and then the rest counted as fast attack. However other sources since then removed that rule so it can vary. Troops having no access to rhinos is a problem in 5th edition. However, you can also be cheap and keep them as fast choices but have them still count as scoring units (Similar to how Sternguard Vets are scoring units for Crimson Fists). Random thinking there so feel free to count that pointless rabble :P

Emperor's Children
The main problem with these guys is their over priced guns, but they were always badly priced so I don't really hold it on you there. However Doom Sirens are more priced towards Meltas or even plasma guns depending on which source you use, being the same price as a flamer is a little iffy. Also BlastMasters were the same cost a Lascannon (or just slighty higher). I would also remove warp scream ability as you are already I5 and having to do leadership test all the time for no reason just slows things down for no real reason. Like others have said, add the raptors back in.

Thousand Sons
Issue taken care of already. They look good to me!

Chaos Undivided and Minor Psychic Powers
I get the point that you want to add some of this stuff just because however it doesn't really fit into the whole concept of your mini-dex. Plus these may mistakenly open up more cans of worms that what might not be intended, I would put these on hold for time being or have restrictions to only certain legions can take them.

Suggestions
While Minor Psychic Powers aren't part of the game any more, some of them may be fine to make into full fledged psychic powers you could add into the various legions. Giving them more than just one special psychic power per chaos god. An other thing I think you can possibly go into is a way to make possessed more unique to each of the 4 pure legions as a World Eater's Possessed should be greatly different than those of the Emperor's Children.

Overall I like what you have and you get most of your points across. There is a bit of picking and balancing to do but thats always the case. Keep in mind there will ALWAYS be arguing over what is "fluffy" and chapter X should have access to everything possible with no drawbacks. Its obvious that you loved the old codex and want to "update" it to fit into the 5th edition world and its coming along very well, so don't let people "force" you to change the fluff so you can make them happy. I can't wait for you to release the next version and keep up the good work.

[The Madman]

Thanks for all the comments (both positive and negative) this has help refine my rule writing. Many changes to the book, some slight others reworded and a few completely re-written. The undivided cult units (raptors and obliterators) will be restricted to some but not other as they left their legions and formed their own war bands, though they do favour some legions over others (Raptors <3 night lords, obliterators <3 Iron Warriors.

This is why I want to make this right and stay true to the fluff, chaos has always been a faction at war with not only other like the Imperium but itself as well and its why I want to add hostility back to the legions. In the matter of the current rules, several GW staff involved in its creation has said that it was aimed more towards renegade chapters and why chaos has become more united.

On the note of lack of background info I will say fluff will come into this book. But not before the rules done to a good extent (to slight hiccups and typos) as the rules really come first in a fan book. In other projects that may involve a new army or reinventing a new one the fluff would come first as it defines the army.

So please give more comments and suggestions in how to improve the book. Giving just negatives won’t make the situation any better.

Version 1.1 is under construction and will be available at a later time.

also @ sirrouga
actually apart from the error with the armour value the basilisk has been copied from the IG book just without the squadron rules or IG vehicle upgrades. the earthshaker is the same as the current

[Melissia]

See, that's a much better reason. I'm perfectly fine with that, I just don't like it when people say "that's the way it's always been done so that's how it should be now."

[Denzark]

alright then.

world eaters is a primarly a close combat force, who rarely used any weapon they can't run with and live by close combat. they were known to be powerful close quaters fighters and would rush striaght forward towards whatever needed killing. the majority became berserkers and very few (if any) aren't. also with the rules you'll find since every unit has the mark of khorne, theres a chance they'll have the rage special rule, this means havoc squads will not be able to use their heavy weapons on some turn and thus are unreliable, so i thought "why would people bother with havocs if they can only take special weapons as they can't fire heavy ones? they might as well take chosen and get 5 instead of just 4."

however people wanted their havocs so they do (along with Raptors).

also they only have tanks so they have equal footing with other tanks. they may be berserkers but their not stupid.

OK Madman.

I like what you are trying to do. People obviously forget the previous codex, with basilisks, free aspiring champs if your squad matches the Gods number etc. Much of your point by point answers should just say 'lifted from 4th ed codex.'

However, don't forget for true canonical fluff, consult Slaves to Darkness:

"As the teeth of the World Eaters, Devastator Squads (read Havoc) rarely limit themselves to providing tactical support. They are often found in the thick of any fight, taking blood with as much abandon as thier comrades in arms,"

Translation - Milord Khorne cares not from whence the skulls come, he is a god of killing not hand to hand, so havocs, vindicators etc are all good. hell he even allowed librarians who had lost their psychic powers and were tasked with keeping tally of the number of kills.

Quite frankly, I hope all your answers in red aren't adaptions just in resposne to the next great comment from soemone - you can only do so much chop and change, one man's broken is another man's Hestan after all.

All I would say apart from that is if more than 50% of your content is a straight lift from 4th ed codex you might as well save the effort and use this.

Cheers

[The Madman]

alright i was running this rule through my head and wrote it out. now i know people don't like restrictions but i say this fits the armies really well.

Raptor and Obliterator cults:
Because of varying views to one another the Raptor and Obliterator cults rarely seen eye to eye with the traitor legions either from tactical disputes to outright single-mindedness. Because of this both chaos raptors and obliterator squads are restricted to 0-1 per force unless this clashes with a Legion special rule.

this means that each legion will get their raptors and obliterators however they will only be allowed 1 squad of each unit. however Night lords and Iron warriors will be able to lift the restrictions to Raptors and Obliterators respectivly, as the cults can relate to them.

so then what do people think?

[sirrouga]

A limit on Raptors and Oblits coming straight out of the 4th edition codex can be alright as long as the army has someone to "fill in" for their role. While I can't say much on Raptors (8 Chaos Marine players in my area and not a SINGLE raptor model!), oblits are taken in mass due to all the roles they can fill. So just be careful that the different legions can still fill those roles in their own way, especially in 5th edition where mech is practically standard. The limit was alright in 4th edition, just make sure it doesn't mess up 5th edition. :P

Side Note: What in the world was I looking at for the earthshaker cannon?!?

[The Madman]

Slight update, i've re-worked the first of the four legions (the undivided ones) and from poeple suggestions i think i might of got them just right. the cult ones however are proving a little more tricky. not quite sure on how to incorperate the thousand sons into other units with out a page long discussion about it. got some ideas for death gaurd and emperors children and world eaters i'm working out the kinks.

going to add a daemons section instead of giving marks to lesser and greater and really inventing some of my own (not as good as the daemons of chaos equivlents, but still useful).

[Xas]

every thought about making rules for an obliterator cult?

ya know for those times when they do not act as mercs for toher legions but come to fight in force

(this could be either completely broken or extremely funny!)

[The Madman]

Been a while but I’ve been working on this for some time. Presentation has been upped and a bit of fluff added. For the legions I’ve decided to split them into two sections "undivided Legions" and "Cult Legions".

Undivided legions will be Alpha legion, Iron Warriors, Night Lords and Word bearers and will be have the following features
- Legion Specific rules
- A new Unit fitting the theme of the legion
- a few wargear items for each Legion

Cult Legions will be World Eaters, Death Guard, Thousand Sons and Emperor's Children and will have the following features
- Legion Specific rules
- New Units fitting the theme of the legion
- New wargear items for each Legion

Cult legions will sport a larger choice each as they are more unique then the undivided legions from different standard weapons to entire unit additions and removals.

Also I’ve removed the restriction on the Raptor and Obliterator cults.
The cult legions are still being worked through but I hope that version 1.1 makes progress in the right direction for the chaos and 40K community.

In addition I require a new front cover for the mini-dex which isn’t official GW art, so any artists out there who want an excuse draw some chaos marines here you go

The requirement:
- A4 sized with room for the cover text, don’t want the evil chaos lords face blocked by large, bold letters.
- be one or more of the eight legions featured
- in colour

also if I do by chance get multiple submissions for the front cover I’ll put them up in a poll the winner will be on the front cover the others will be dotted throughout the pages to make it look prettyful

[Grimgore]

I like where this is going, I'm going to print it out... read it through, make some notes and email you at some point. If this keeps looking up i'll link it from my own blog.

Thanks and keep up the good work,

Grim