BOLS frontpage and Faeit gone?

[Alvarius]

Yes you can, that is a highly arguable statement. More and more people seem to be pissed off because they are on the internet moaning constantly instead of actually taking responsibility for their own hobby.

In some cases that's prolly true... xept that here it's kind of missed... since I've started going deeper into the hobby I've created 3 different gaming clubs and have been involved in a multitude of different projects to expand the knowlegde and popularity of wargaming in my own area as well as helping my friends in different countries.... sad thing is that in most cases people tended to shift from GW games to things like Infinity, Hordes, Warmachine..even SW miniatures... why? 2 reasons: 1 (obviously) GW prices which are becoming more and more ridiculous (when a battleforce / batalion costs about 25% of your monthly pay and you're a kid who doesn't work, or are working but have to pay your bills and support your family, that's a big thing). 2. people getting pissed at GW going more and more for profit instead of being "for the people". Like I've said, I understand business, but they have been going a bit too far recently

WD has improved dramatically and I think it is continuing to improve, though slowly. The evolution of crisis suits in the April issue was a good step forward in my opinion and the terrain features, army showcases and kit bash sections are all very good in my opinion. As is the 'what's happening around the studio' section in the back. The paint splatter articles are also a very big hit with many of the more inexperienced or less confident painters in my games club and combined with the new paint range we are seeing them paint a lot more than ever before.

Again, I've said that Paint Splatter is a good thing. I'm not saying that WD has nothing to offer from the hobby-passion point of view. Just that since the editor changed, the main focus has been on marketing and the hobby part became an add-on. As an example take a random WD from 4-5 years back and compare it to one of the "new" issues. I'm not even gonna start about the "Golden Age" issues ( Armageddon 3rd / Storm of Chaos campaigns anyone? ). Also the new Battle Reports are... dry... for lack of a better word. The comments of the spectators are all nice and fine ( a good idea), but the rest... the army lists have been "confidential" points wise, so untill you buy a given codex you can't be sure if the army that "performed so well" in the BR, wasn't for instance 200pts bigger than the oposing one, or that it's composition was illegal / messed up. That wasn't the case with the BRs from the past. True, there were some mistakes (happens), or custom army lists, but every time it was either explained, or clear for all to see... but then again... if you had the full loadout and points cost right there in WD.. you didn't have to buy the codex / army book and could just play using the units / set up from WD... Many times in the past I've read the BRs like an extract from a good book. I watched the maps, saw the logic behind different tactics and learned new tricks... now... it's just empty and dry... only sometimes I come across something that makes me go "ok, that's good to know", while in the past it was not only informative, but it was fun and gave me plenty of laughs ( Chris byrne's Iron Warriors / Salamanders BR with Vathek clanging his head agains the bunker wall after an epic fail turn - something nice for all the veterans to remember ). not to mention the full story-like BRs that came out from time to time ( again, Armageddon 3rd ultra big multiplayer BR... pure epicness ). How about things like "A tale of 4 gamers" / or the Building an Army series? People could follow one of their own through the process of creating a whole army from the start. Some nice ideas for the vets, and a great guide for the newcommers. Another example? Look at the dev article when Dark Eldar came out, and look at the one about the Tau from the recent WD... read through the info you're getting about these armies... compare the actual info about the army and the process and thought behind it, to how much space the miniatures advertising part takes up. We got some info about some army specific rules... not all, but a few of them that gout us saying "wow. these rules make them really good"...example: "Dark Eldar are great, because they gather pain tokens that can give them feel no pain, make them fearless and provide other bonuses. Splinter weapons are all poison 4+. You can bring your troops in through the portal that your Archin can carry, thus your units can enter the battle closer to the enemy" etc. etc. now... a few hints, nothing solid xept "our models are AWESOME... and can do great stuff on the table, because they are awesome in their awesomness. Why? Because they are awesome.". True enough, there was mention of "overcharging the Riptide" and a "genestealer killing forcefield" on the Tau commander, which is an improvement from the previous new issues, but still, that's nothing compared to the old ones.
(just to make it clear to all the possible haters: the examples of rules given for the DE & Tau were not quotes... just a general compilation of the info presented in the articles )

There is still a lot of room for improvement, I'd like to see things like terrain workshops where they show you how to build larger terain pieces in detail, scenario and narative campaigns included in the magazine in instalments rather than in campaign books like Crusade of Fire (though they are good too) and so forth. But it is far more than just a dry marketing tool now.

I fully agree on all the improvements that you have mentioned. 100% The final sentence tho... When I've said "dry" I just reffered to (and I have indicated that at the start of my previous post) my personal opinion... because that's how it feels to me COMPARED TO THE WD IN THE PAST (sorry for the caps, but I just wanted to make that part clear for all the people that have trouble with understanding what they're reading - there's always some of them roaming the great Webway ). I've mentioned it before: it's not 100% marketing... but when the past WDs were 70% hobby + 30% marketing, then new ones are 70% M + 30% H.....
And I really don't like the new logo and cover design... the ilustrations in the past were far more interesting to me... I just hope they don't do the same thing with the Codexes...codicies...you know.... and Armybooks.
( again, a drawing / ilustration makes you think of a book / comics... something with a story... narrative... a picture of a miniature....gives the impression of a catalogue. Not much else ).

[Alvarius]

I wish WD would start painting master class again, old style battle reports with maps and put the number back on the cover!

I do like the interviews with BL, FW and what the WD teams up to this month. Also thought the crisis suit history was good and would like to see more articles like this.

I'm all for that.

[Eupackardia]

Ah man, these types of news really takes the fun out of your day... and I JUST bought some new paint today to finish off the three terminators i started... Now it really sucks the enthusiasm i had all of a sudden to be honest. Still, I guess we have to see what comes out of all this.

My take on it is' GW's gone Heretic. The emperor has fallen into the hands of the Chaos Lords (the shareholders). We must take Terra back and cleanse this corruption! WHO'S WITH ME? (yeah why not start by writing a lil message to their customer service? Ya know, politely. as a mature community should) It probably won't do anything and ya won't get a reply, but maybe, just maybe they'll notice the Storm coming about them.

[DeadPanda]

Soooo...
Did GW just directly attack their most enthusiastic fans for showing early pics of White Dwarf? I don't think that's going to prevent folks from seeing those pics or generate more fans.

I'm a bit of a GW fan, but in this instance I think they have gone too far. I can understand why but I think their missing the point that blogs like Faeit don't harm them in anyway but only promote their products in a generally positive way. The leaked pictures do nothing but excite the fans and the rumours keep us interested between WD issues. I also think GW maybe overstating just how many of their customers actually look at these types of forums and blogs. Out of my gaming group I'm the only one and I'm guessing as a rule its true that the majority of their customers only use WD Daily as their online gaming resource.

[Anggul]

I would just buy the paint splatter page if I could, and maybe a couple of the other things in there.

And yeah, GW will continue to be afloat because they have right to 40k and Fantasy. If, somehow, another company had those rights as well, I'm pretty sure nearly everyone would move to said company and leave GW in the dirt, assuming they weren't even worse.

To be honest though, it's just the suddenly exorbitant pricing of the big monster kits and some of the finecast that gets me and I believe a lot of others. The other moaning people do just seems to stem from that. I mean, we all know that this is an expensive hobby, it always has been, but recently there have been monster kits costing £50. My Trygon cost me about £30, there's no reason for the Riptide to be £20 more than that. Also the Slaughterbrute/Mutalith, which don't look great and are also bad in-game, assuring that very few people will buy the kit. Some might have done so anyway to give them a go, but at that price it isn't something you'll just add to your cart.

Other than that they have, if anything, improved massively I think. The new codices and army books are flowing at a lovely rate and the rules are much better and more balanced. Yeah there's the occasional hiccup here and there but generally they're doing very well indeed. This is a minor thing considering how quickly things are being released anyway. Not so long ago we would have seen those pictures and assumed we would be waiting a very long time before we saw the models on the GW site. As of the last few months we can generally be quite confident that their release is imminent. Good things my friends, good things indeed.

Thus I have a good view of GW, peppered by the occasional insulting price tag on big beasties and finecast things (I'm looking at you, Dark Eldar Wracks :P).

Oh, and Forgeworld... them tags be crazy.

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

Sorry to spam with my own blog link here, but I wrote this before I found this thread.

[URL="http://masterminis.blogspot.de/2013/04/gws-legal-department-strikes-again-rip.html"]This is for Gary. I loved Faeit 212.[/URL]

[doogansquest]

Well, GW has grown in volume of sales, not just profit, when compared to PP the last 2 years. As for their prices: every miniature game is expensive. Walking through Adepticon booths for awhile made me miss GW prices - for far better miniatures at that. Hmm, do I want Mulg? Or for the same money buy a Hive Tyrant kit that's bigger, more detailed, easier to assemble and/or convert, and makes 3 different variants? It also won't shatter if it ever tips over. A Stormwall? Or a Baneblade PLUS a squad of Guardsmen? A squad of stupid looking Retribution cavalry? Or 3 squads of Chaos Knights?

Both companies have expensive books, so that's a wash.

"But...but...start up costs..." Yup, it's true. One is a game about a caster and his friends, the other is about freaking armies doing battle. Yet the basic infantry of said armies still look better than the unique characters of the other.

Encouraging their fans in the hobby? Like how Press Gangers at every turn at Adepticon were telling me how stupid and poorly written every other system is? How a judge at a PP tournament or painting competition will disqualify a player or painter if so much as one bit from another system is recognized? Meanwhile, GW encourages such conversion (while the base of the model is GW's) and has turned the bulk of their tournaments over to independent organizers so that the people have more input? How they have released new armies at an absurd pace for a year now? How FAQ's come bi-monthly? How the 6th ed rules set borrowed missions, tables, and adjustments from TO feedback? How they designed the 6th ed codices together so their rules would be balanced against each other? How they corrected oversights like Power Scroll, made splash releases, and continue to expand their universe into other genres? Man...they NEVER think of the customer's happiness. Their steady increase in sales (no, not short-term price increase gains...which would still imply people are buying anyway) says they are totally sinking!

Also, this is a hobby (miniatures) within a niche (table top) within a niche (gaming). Why should a kid who doesn't work be able to afford it? GW is never going to turn a profit thinking like Wal Mart with a product that will never be the biggest in gaming, let alone among the general public. Every single miniatures company is focused on profit. If you think any of them are customer-first and foremost, you are delusional. Profit is how a company can innovate, expand, create jobs, and adapt. No business survives otherwise, and no charitable contributor is going to view miniatures as a worthwhile cause (to slip the "non-profit organization" comments sure to follow).

White Dwarf is far closer to 35% adverts, 65% hobby now. Has been for a while. But guess what? Every miniatures magazine in the world focuses on...guess what? Miniatures for sale. GW has a larger volume of minis than the next 3 competitors combined, with far bigger releases and thus has to focus attention on them. And yes, I have issues of the mag from 5+ years ago. The current ones are far more enjoyable to read. The only reason there was less time spent on new models was because we often waited 6 months without anything new. Hardly reasonable in today's impatient society. There's really no valid argument against the current mag from anyone viewing it through non-jaded lenses.

People have been deciding, with their wallets, that the "GW sucks" view is in the slim, slim minority. Those people chanting it just happen to be the loudest.

[Alvarius]

I would just buy the paint splatter page if I could, and maybe a couple of the other things in there.

And yeah, GW will continue to be afloat because they have right to 40k and Fantasy. If, somehow, another company had those rights as well, I'm pretty sure nearly everyone would move to said company and leave GW in the dirt, assuming they weren't even worse.

To be honest though, it's just the suddenly exorbitant pricing of the big monster kits and some of the finecast that gets me and I believe a lot of others. The other moaning people do just seems to stem from that. I mean, we all know that this is an expensive hobby, it always has been, but recently there have been monster kits costing £50. My Trygon cost me about £30, there's no reason for the Riptide to be £20 more than that. Also the Slaughterbrute/Mutalith, which don't look great and are also bad in-game, assuring that very few people will buy the kit. Some might have done so anyway to give them a go, but at that price it isn't something you'll just add to your cart.

Other than that they have, if anything, improved massively I think. The new codices and army books are flowing at a lovely rate and the rules are much better and more balanced. Yeah there's the occasional hiccup here and there but generally they're doing very well indeed. This is a minor thing considering how quickly things are being released anyway. Not so long ago we would have seen those pictures and assumed we would be waiting a very long time before we saw the models on the GW site. As of the last few months we can generally be quite confident that their release is imminent. Good things my friends, good things indeed.

Thus I have a good view of GW, peppered by the occasional insulting price tag on big beasties and finecast things (I'm looking at you, Dark Eldar Wracks :P).

Oh, and Forgeworld... them tags be crazy.

Well I've said before, their products - from a technological point of view - have improved. The quality of the miniatures (xept for the "failcast" hiccups) is better than ever. The books are getting better quality-wise as well.
The prices are "strike 1"... throwing lawsuits agains people and websites that are helping expand the comunity, bu giving what GW doesn't (how's about an official GW message board?) is "strike 2" ... Both of these have gone up to ridiculous levels recently... so I just wonder when "strike 3" will happen and what it will be.

And yes, previously we saw the pictures of minis and had to wait for them to come out longer... because we were getting info much sooner, and in more detail... so people knew that it would be worth to start saving up cash for a given army...
To me GW is going for a more "people are for us" instead of "we are for the people" approach. Contact and working with the comunity should be the most important thing for this kind of company. Not just posting pics of people's minis on flickr or showing them in WD... but really interacting with the entusiasts... every day, not just durring events like Games Day. that's just my take on things.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

This thread is far too much tl;dr.

[doogansquest]

Well I've said before, their products - from a technological point of view - have improved. The quality of the miniatures (xept for the "failcast" hiccups) is better than ever. The books are getting better quality-wise as well.
The prices are "strike 1"... throwing lawsuits agains people and websites that are helping expand the comunity, bu giving what GW doesn't (how's about an official GW message board?) is "strike 2" ... Both of these have gone up to ridiculous levels recently... so I just wonder when "strike 3" will happen and what it will be.

And yes, previously we saw the pictures of minis and had to wait for them to come out longer... because we were getting info much sooner, and in more detail... so people knew that it would be worth to start saving up cash for a given army...
To me GW is going for a more "people are for us" instead of "we are for the people" approach. Contact and working with the comunity should be the most important thing for this kind of company. Not just posting pics of people's minis on flickr or showing them in WD... but really interacting with the entusiasts... every day, not just durring events like Games Day. that's just my take on things.

It is just your take, and not the facts. Strikes by your account aren't going to be reflective of what's really happening. Protecting IP is nothing new, there's just more readily available coverage of it now.

As far as people saving up for a release based on knowing ahead: that is grade Q bologna and hasn't been reflected by any measure of market research or trends. Seeing as how GW's sales have gone up dramatically since tightening the lid, I don't even know how an argument can be made the other way. People are going to spend what they want to spend. Regardless of whether it is now or in three months. What far reaching rumors did do was kill the excitement as people knew about a release months in advance. Now everyone sees it and gets excited (positive or negative) and can immediately buy it within five days or so. If saving up is an issue...save up. Set aside a "gaming budget" every month. When something comes out you like, buy it. If not, stash it away and then you'll be able to buy a lot more later on. That's called being responsible with money.

Their customer service is pretty much spot on. Problem with a mini? Call and a new one will be on it's way before the conversation ends. They are currently building a community forum (shh...secret), and expanding their software to the better platform which will also include army building apps updated AA regularly as the books and FAQ's hit.