Codex: Adepta Sororitas

[Melissia]

The new Penitent Engine:

Heavy Support
Penitent Engines

105 Points	WS	BS	S	T	Wn	I	A	Ld	Sv
Penitent Engine	4	2	10	5	3	3	3	10	2+/6++

Type	Composition	Wargear	Special Rules
Monstrous Creature	1-3 Penitent Engines	2x Flamers Cage of Condemnation	Fearless Holy Rage Unstoppable Rampage

• Cost is 105 per Penitent Engine

Cage of Condemnation

All psykers present within 6" of a Penitent Engine at the beginning of each turn must pass a leadership test or fall back. This will force Independent Characters to detach from their squad.

Unstoppable Rage

Penitent Engines have Eternal Warrior, and Force Weapons count as Power Weapons (including the Sword of Asurman and Daemonhunters/Witch Hunters Force Weapons). Penitent Engines that run before charging add a number of attacks equal to the inches ran instead of the usual +1 charge modifier.


Opinions? It should be simpler at least. I'm worried about points cost, as I'm unsure how to cost monstrous creatures.

[Hugz4Genestealers]

Looks cool, and good, more importantly, but I gotta comment on the price. A three-wound, immune to instant death, strength 10 monstrous creature armed with two flamers in terminator armor with special rules that gets d6 bonus attacks on the charge for less than the cost of three terminators? A bit iffy if you ask me. Just an opinion, though.

[Melissia]

It also has Rage, unlike terminators, and sticks out above a crowd (no using other units to give a cover save), unlike Terminators, and can't be transported or deep striked, unlike terminators.

A better comparison would be with other monstrous creatures, rather than terminators, but even then the Carnifex is usually agreed to be a bit overpriced.

[Hugz4Genestealers]

Alright, then, comparing it to the carnifex, I would suggest perhaps dropping it to strength 9 and giving it furious charge, which would be a good fit with the Unstoppable Rage rule, as well. Having a crazy guy in an exoskeleton have a higher base strength than said carnifex is somewhat hard to swallow.
P.S. A question about the Cage: presumably it affects psykers locked in close combat, as well. So, if they are forced to fall back while locked in CC with the Engine, is it allowed to try and sweeping advance them? What about if the psyker is an IC?

[DarkLink]

If the psyker is an IC, the psyker takes the test and falls back, which may cause him to detatch from his squad. If the psyker isn't an IC, then the psyker's entire squad falls back. The rule only affects psykers.

At least, that's the way I read it.

[Hugz4Genestealers]

Yes, but can the Engine attempt to sweeping advance in either case?

[Melissia]

Having a crazy guy in an exoskeleton have a higher base strength than said carnifex is somewhat hard to swallow.?

What exoskeleton? The "crazy guy" is nothing more than a prisoner that's along for the ride with the machine doing all the actual fighting and movement. Indeed, some Penitent Engine art actually depict the rider as headless. I don't see why I should nerf Penitent Engines, the stats are for the actual machine, not for the machine + rider.

[Melissia]

Yes, but can the Engine attempt to sweeping advance in either case?

Can Sweeping Advances be made if your'e still in close combat?

For example, if you charge an Imperial Guard squad, but it doesn't flee the first turn, and a second Imperial Guard squad charges into melee as well (to tie your unit up some more)... and the first Guard squad finally flees but the second one is still in combat... can you in this situation perform a sweeping advance?

[Nabterayl]

Can Sweeping Advances be made if your'e still in close combat?

For example, if you charge an Imperial Guard squad, but it doesn't flee the first turn, and a second Imperial Guard squad charges into melee as well (to tie your unit up some more)... and the first Guard squad finally flees but the second one is still in combat... can you in this situation perform a sweeping advance?

No, you can't.

Hugz, the S10 is partially my suggestion. Penitent Engines currently have dreadnought close combat weapons, which make them S5(10). Mel originally wrote her new PE as an S5 monstrous creature which had a power fist that struck at Initiative. This struck me as unnecessarily complicated, because an S5(10) monstrous creature that strikes at Initiative is no different from an S10 monstrous creature (well okay, except for purposes of Strength tests, but that seems like a pretty minor thing). So I suggested she just make it S10 and be done with it.

Rules question: do you intend to force the psykers to detach, or simply to move? There's a difference between forcing a unit to move out of coherency and detaching out of order. For instance, suppose an IC psyker in base contact with another model of its unit moves back d6" and rolls a 1. The way you have it right now that model would be in coherency with its unit, but still detached, which might be hard to keep track of. Another difference is if an IC psyker falls back during your turn, it suddenly becomes an independent target. And how do you deal with mixed units like psyker battle squads? If only the psykers fall back, is the entire unit considered to be Falling Back?

[Melissia]

Good point. Just moving, and detaching if they're out of coherency with the unit?

And yes, if the unit that is taking the leadership test is the squad itself-- IE, psyker battle squads-- then that unit would fall back. Independent characters are the only ones that might separate from the squad.