Sergeants, Lightning Claws, RAI, RAW, and Being Reasonable

[Chris Copeland]

(all of the below are from e-mails, Facebook posts, and messages that flowed between myself and some folks in my gaming circle)

Me to the Local TOs: A buddy of mine recently brought up a point to me. He was worried that my TH/SS Termies with Cyclone Missile Launchers wouldn’t be legal in 6th Edition. THAT issue has been resolved. Now, I am worried that Deathwing Sergeants are stuck with swords (and not Lightning Claws) because of some other poorly thought out wording. Here is how it all unfolded:
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My Buddy: You might want to re-read the Deathwing cyclone + hammer/shield thing. The hammer/shield states "any terminator may give up all weapons for ..." Don’t know if that means all his guns, including any heavy weapon choice he may have made


Me: It means all of the weapons he normally comes equipped with... the Cyclone is bought after that. Claws or THSS with a Cyclone have always been legal... you can see an example (a picture) of this on page 65 of the old codex...


My Buddy: Roger, old codex i agree whole heartedly... might want to double check/clarify with the new codex tho.


Me: I would vigorously argue this case if some rules lawyer tried to BS their way through this in 6th... the wording isn't the best but it's ambiguous enough that someone might try to get it ruled that way. GW works hard these days not to invalidate models that we have from previous editions...


My Buddy: Fair enough, i just wanted to make sure you saw it.


Me: OK. Has this come up in any discussions or forums or was it something you noticed? i.e.: is there already an ongoing meta-discussion about this rule?


My Buddy: I tend to stay off of forums, this is just how i read the rule.


Me: Do YOU think it is ambiguous and poorly written or do you think it is outlawing a classic combo on purpose? Do you see the side I present?
What is your take, good sir?


My Buddy: Yes i do, the fact we are discussing it leans toward a poorly writen rule. I see your side, and don’t disagree, as far as GW making models from an old codex obsolete/non-useable: Pariahs.


i read it as the "trade all weapons" I can see the wording under the heavy weapon saying "take a cyclone"


Me: The were pretty clear that Pariahs just changed names and got a new/better model... I think it was in White Dwarf...


My Buddy: the Pariahs were totally revamped, and the model became "useless" the weapon/wargear changed and the Lychgard was born.


Me: The Pariahs are still useful as one version of the Lychguard. I just read the rules over again and I think it is a non issue. It comes down to the words "replace" and "take"... the codex lists different ways Termies can replace their initial weapons load out. ANY five man squad can "take" a Cyclone. Even a squad made entirely of THSS could take one Cyclone with them.


-------... days later...------------


My Buddy: they fixed our question...


Page 99 – Deathwing Terminator Squad, Options
Change the second bullet point to:
“• Any model can replace his storm bolter and power fist
with:
- a pair of lightning claws ……………………………….free
- a thunder hammer and storm shield ………….5 pts


Me: I saw that. I was gonna send you a note tonight. I really like how on the stick GW is these days!


My Buddy: yeah, prompt FAQs is nice


--------.... then I saw THIS on the interwebz:-----------


Some Guy on the Interwebz: I'm annoyed by the Dark Angels FAQ, they've changed the deathwing terminator squad weapon option from "Any model may replace all his weapons with" to "Any model may replace his power fist and storm bolter with"; this means the sergeant is now stuck with a storm bolter and power sword, he can't choose any options at all now! I don't understand why they would change this is my sergeant is the only model in one of my squads that has lightning claws...


Me to GW via E-Mail: Dear GW, I really appreciate how quickly you all have been updating FAQs and staying on top of errata. Well done! Keep up the good work!
Deathwing Sergeants have always been able to be kitted out with Lightning Claws (4th, 5th, and 6th Edition). The most recent DA FAQ seems to be worded in a way that precludes this load out anymore. It now says:“• Any model can replace his storm bolter and powerfist with:
- a pair of lightning claws ……………………………….free
- a thunder hammer and storm shield ………….5 pts


See the problem? The stormbolter and powerfist may be replaced. That leaves out the Sergeant and his power-sword.


My take on this is this: you guys put out this clarification because some rules-lawyers were saying that if a Terminator took the TH/SS combo they couldn't take a whirlwind launcher. You wanted to clear up that issue and did so nicely. However, the new wording seems to disallow Sergeants from the classic weapons they've long had access to.


I'm sure this is an oversight. Please confirm to me that it is. Please let me know that you were just trying to clear up the other issue, not trying to limit what Sergeants could take. Thanks! Cheers! Kerstan


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Me to Local TOs: I think this needs to be sorted out locally before we get to the GT... before someone says to a Dark Angels player, “Ah, ah, ah! Your Sergeant can’t be kitted like that (with Lightning Claws of a TH/SS combo). Look at the FAQ!

GW made a mistake. They are human. They fixed one poorly worded rule and mistakenly eliminated a popular, classic model. Let’s recognize this for what it is: human failure, not a desire to change the nature of DA Deathwing squads. The intent is just as important as the actual wording. Last point: look at the Assault Terminator box. The Sergeant is equipped with Lightning Claws. TOs, your thoughts, gentlemen? Cheers. Cope


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First TO: That's why I don't go to any GW related boards anymore. What possible reason could there by why the highest ranking model in the squad could not get claws and his subordinates could? This is not an issue, and lord help the guy who comes up to me and complains because his DW opponent's sgt has a lightning claw.


Another TO: Sergeants can upgrade. The end.


First TO: They fixed it because the same asshats that are making this argument were making similarly asinine arguments earlier. Some people seem to find personal validation in making rules issues were none need exist.


Third TO: My opinion is it's a mistake, sergeant can take it too. My advice is don't play with Asshats.


Me: Yep. If anyone gives me a hard time about my Lightning Claw Sergeants I'll say, "I'm sorry. Clearly we are looking for different things from gaming. I've got to move along now."


Third TO: Now, if GW releases a new Deathwing Sgt model in the near future, we have an entirely different issue to discuss


Another Buddy of Mine: In the words of Lil Wayne - "F**k em, f**k em, even if they celibate."

[DeadPanda]

Good to see common sense prevailing. We all know how Deathwing works, we all know how GW thinks they are kitted out despite a simple typo. I know none of my buddy's would pull that kind of rules lawyering crap on anyone and like you I wouldn't play a "fun game" against someone who would. It's not like a DW army is OP anyway.
Cheers
Dead

[Caitsidhe]

I agree with you Kerstan although I would love for a tighter rule set in the first place to avoid the whole issue. For me it is entirely academic I suppose since I'm just going to shoot all your Terminators down like dogs before they get into combat. What weapons they are holding isn't much of a problem one way or the other.

[Chris Copeland]

John, this is why we both believe that Warmachine is a better game... Kerstan