Imperator! This one is keeping me awake...

[Just_Me]

It's all myth...the Emperor died that day and the rest of the story is a farce forced upon us by the powers that be to avoid total chaos...which would have inevitably been the undoing of all the Emperor worked for. It is very effective, but "goof" all the same.

Seriously, no, he didn’t die. That’s what the Chaos party line is (insofar as Chaos has a party line…). There is abundant evidence that he is alive, else the Astronomican would fail and the Soulbinding would not be possible, just to name a few examples.

On the other hand while he definitely isn’t “dead” he isn’t “alive” either, and it is somewhat unclear if he is conscious in his current state.

At this point, the whole of what happened during the Heresy has fallen to legend. Who knows what is real and what is not any more??

Well, those of us who have read the Horus Hersey novels for a start…

[URL="http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r314/Gotthammer/40k/EinsteinVsNinjas1.jpg"]I think Einstein deserves a special mention on that list.[/URL]

And yes, yes he does, that omission was my mistake.

[Duke]

As was said earlier, I always thought of the Golden throne as a super dread.

Duke

[Alrik_40000]

I suppose it would have behooved me to read more about the Heresy or the Golden Throne before posting this. I basically thought everything was groovy as long as he was conscious. I didn't realize it had gotten to the point where he had to sit on the Throne continually to keep away the nastiness and bring the good...

And I wasn't proposing they throw him on the front lines of every little skirmish either... Seeing as how Chapters seek wisdom from their dreadnoughts since they've seen a bunch of crap, I was thinking it would be great to actually get advice from the Big Guy himself.

[Just_Me]

I suppose it would have behooved me to read more about the Heresy or the Golden Throne before posting this.

I wouldn’t say that, when I posted that I meant you no disrespect by my ranting response, I honestly meant just that. You clearly have gaps in your knowledge, but you are asking questions, and the purpose of asking questions is to have others help to fill in said gaps (otherwise you wouldn’t be asking questions at all!). So in that sense you should feel no shame in your question.

From a purely literary perspective however, I would heartily recommend reading the Horus Heresy novels, some are weaker than others, but on the whole they are very interesting to anyone who wants to learn about the history of the 40k lore. Even if that doesn’t interest you they really are a great story. As an example; I got my father started reading them, and while he neither plays the games nor has any prior background knowledge (beyond what I have told him), he thoroughly enjoys them as a stand-alone series and has since begun asking me for a lot more information about the fluff.

I basically thought everything was groovy as long as he was conscious. I didn't realize it had gotten to the point where he had to sit on the Throne continually to keep away the nastiness and bring the good...

That’s a tricky one, to be quite honest that information is not entirely reliable (or arguably even entirely canon). It doesn’t come from GW directly, but from Sabertooth Games who the licensed to produce the Horus Heresy CCG. At this point GW seems to be choosing to back it up, but they could just as easily decide to pull the rug out from under it if they wanted. I am personally biased on this subject, as in my personal opinion it is a somewhat anticlimactic reveal, and I would prefer them to come up with something more compelling. However, my own personal opinions aside, it is notably the HH novels have revealed a few facts that really contradict this story. Most notably that if it were true it would mean that the Emperor would have to have been sitting on the Golden Thrown nonstop from the time Magnus psychically warned him of Horus’s treachery (and thereby messed up the carful equilibrium to cause the warp rift in the first place), to the time he faced Horus in orbit and Malcador temporarily took his place (an effort that killed Malcador, even though he was a staggeringly potent psyker in his own right). But in both Blood Games and The Lightning Tower the Emperor was able to leave his seclusion, at least temporarily.

[Melissia]

Correct me if I'm wrong

You are. The Emperor spoke with the founders of the Adepta Sororitas as late as M.36.

[Nabterayl]

I was under the impression that all we know happened was that the Custodes took Dominica and her bodyguards into the throne room, where ... something happened. Dominica came out of the Presence convinced that Vandire had hoodwinked them, marched into Vandire's audience chamber, denounced him, and slew him.

if that's all we know happened, that's not what I was talking about. A dreadnought pilot can actually speak. With a synthesized voice, perhaps, but audible words. A dreadnought pilot can participate in a war council. He can recite poetry, if he's so inclined. He can sing. He can read the phonebook.

When was the last time the Emperor produced an audible sound? When was the last time he had a two-way conversation with somebody? When was the last time he engaged in a discussion of policy? Not since before the Ascension, right?

The evidence seems quite good that the Emperor communicates, but I've never gotten the impression he's in any kind of state to, for instance, discuss public policy with the High Lords, even if the High Lords had regular access to the throne room. Influencing the Emperor's Tarot, doing something to those who have been in his Presence, sure ... but nothing so mundane or useful as speech, right?

[Melissia]

He spoke to them, and other Adepta Sororitas fluff continues this-- the Order of the Ebon Chalice was given a name baed off of the vision granted by the Emperor when they met with him.

Whether or not the Emperor speaks in words or in visions, he speaks to his people; and therefor his mind is not as dead as you or the servants of the dark gods would claim it to be.

[Nabterayl]

I don't know how "dead" you think I'm claiming the Emperor's mind is. I know that the Emperor does stuff. Plenty of people have been granted visions in the Presence, and even more have undergone the soulbinding (for those who don't know, every sanctioned psyker in the Imperium, from the most potent Grey Knight grand master to the lowliest astropath, undergoes a ritual called the "soulbinding" in the Presence of the Emperor, after which the psyker has a resistance to the Warp that he did not have before; many also receive visions during the ritual).

I certainly don't think the Emperor is dead. What I do think is that there's a difference between communicating by soul (or communicating psychically, if you prefer to be more scientific about it) and communicating by mouth or vox. The only times it's been spelled out how the Emperor communicates, it's been the former, which is very different than how a dreadnought - even a dreadnought piloted by a psyker - behaves. Since Alrik's original question was about the difference between the Golden Throne and a dreadnought sarcophagus, that seemed relevant to me.

If the Emperor were in the same state as a dreadnought pilot, he could (and presumably would, out of boredom if nothing else) speak with the Companions, wouldn't he? Or was the task of using the Golden Throne so great even in life that he couldn't be spare the attention to speak when he was on it, even in life?

[entendre_entendre]

If the Emperor were in the same state as a dreadnought pilot, he could (and presumably would, out of boredom if nothing else) speak with the Companions, wouldn't he? Or was the task of using the Golden Throne so great even in life that he couldn't be spare the attention to speak when he was on it, even in life?

golden throne room:
++ Hey! Can a brother get a beer around here? ++
Custodes: "what?!? who said that?"
++ Ummm... Look up.++
Custodes: "my lord?"
++ Who else would it be?++
Custodes: "... my lord, you're alive?"
++ Of course I'm alive, why would you think otherwise?++
Custodes:"..."
++ It's those High Lords again isn't it?++
Custodes:"..."
++ So... can I get that beer?++
Custodes:"why m'lord?"
++Let me think... I've been guiding all warp travel for 10,000 years while simultaneously holding a webway portal closed to prevent Daemons from overrunning the planet for the same amount of time. On consideration of this, I think my request really isn't that outrageous.++
Custodes:"alright, i'll be back in a few minutes."
++Sure, I've already been here for 10,000 years, what's a few more minutes?++

Custodes:"here you are."
++Ahhh... nothing like a cold, refreshing, tasty beer after using your psychic might to-... What the F*ck is this?!?!?!"++
Custodes:"that's the local brew sir."
++More like the local latrines! I suspected things might deteriorate in my absence, but DAAMN! What kind of empire is this? They say you can tell a lot about an empire by its drinks, and in reference to this swill, everyone must be a total, in-bred, swine!++
Custodes:"i'm sorry sir?"
++I'm sorry, I didn't mean to insult you. It's just that this is so horrible, ugh! I guess I had high hopes, but after ten millenia, what did I honestly expect?++
Custodes:"okay, is there anything else i can do for you my lord?"
++Actually, if you don't mind, I've had the nastiest itch behind my left shoulder for the last 5,000 years, could you scratch it? I'd do it myself, but you know, hold the whole "hold the Imperium together" thing and all that..."

[Jay Biga]

A dreadnought pilot can actually...(snip)...read the phonebook.

But good luck flipping the pages with thumbs that big...

I take it most of you have never played Inquisitor. EVERY THING YOU HAVE BEEN TOLD IS A LIE!
It is actually possible to bring his soul back into his body...oh dear.

And @ double entendre: LOL!