How do you handle imperial vs. imperial battles?

[Kahoolin]

Like most people one of the main things I like about 40k is the background, and the reason I choose my armies is because I pretty much like playing make-believe that I'm the general of a bunch of space army men

So I picked Guard because I like being the good guys, and I also have some sisters. I like the idea of being mere humans in the crazy universe and all that. Thing is my friend I play with has a huge Ultramarines army because he likes being the good guys too (apparently even more than I do). This hasn't really been a problem much before, we've just ignored the narrative element, but there comes a point where you get kind of sick of "training exercises", and neither of us wants to be the bad guy all the time.

I was thinking of creating a narrative that can explain all our battles while allowing both of our armies to be heroic, something like this:

"Blah World was the epicentre of a full scale chaos incursion that was brought under control by the combined might of an imperial guard army group and the forces of the Ultramarines. After the incursion was contained Inquisitor Blah discovered that the taint had infected the whole elite of the planet. The Ultramarines executed the governor and smashed the ruling families. The navy blockaded the planet and then the Ultramarines began the sad task of cleansing the world.

Unfortunately for them, Cardinal Blah has refused to surrender to justice. He has persuaded the pious High Commander of the remnants of the IG that the marines have fallen into heresy, and has inspired the local sororitas convent to defend the faith. The remaining guard elements and the sororitas, believing the Ultramarines heretics, are not going to just lay down and die..."

I think this is pretty good. We can fight each other, my guys get to be the underdogs and my mate's guys get to be the shining knights defending the Imperium. Both think they are working for the Emperor against traitors, and Cardinal Blah may be tainted by Chaos or he could just not want to be stomped on by big blue boots.

How does your group justify imperial versus imperial battles, or the problem of too many good guys in general? At least the Imperium is a towering bureacracy full of human weakness, I'd hate to try and justify why two Eldar craftworlds or Tau septs would fight each other without one of them obviously being the bad guy.

[Levitas]

I too have thought this, and have come up with a number of bizarre explanations beyond 'training'. The inquisition is always a favorite fall guy as they wield so much power but can become so corrupt. Even so its hard explaining Ultramarines vs grey knights.

Minor skirmishes will often arise between space marine chapters, for instance in the SW codex an alliance crumbles with flesh tearers after the wolves see the tearers unrelenting carnage into the citizens they were protecting. Clash of ideals and methods is a common reason, so too is honor and even spoils of war. Is there also the black and white of for Imperium or against? Would an imperial commander become disillusioned with way the empire is crumbling? Would a space marine captain take his company away from the imperium but still not fall to chaos??

It is in the fluff, you just have to look lil deeper. The universe is filled with multi layered characters who are more shades of grey than black and white. The shining ultramarine is a genetically modified killing machine, that in itself would spark fear amongst a jumpy Imperial governor. The sisters of battle will follow imperial creed to the word almost, while space marines are a law unto themselves.

Of course these are minor squabbles and differences. In the face of a common foe they would unite. As would the waring nations of earth should we be invaded by aliens!

Great post.

[Melissia]

They're heretics. BURN 'EM!


... wait, they're loyal?


...

...

...

... BURN 'EM ANYWAY!

[entendre_entendre]

They're heretics. BURN 'EM!


... wait, they're loyal?


...

...

...

... BURN 'EM ANYWAY!

this made me smile

eh, i guess playing chaos this never comes up for me, as i can fluff justify any chaos vs. chaos battles as a chaos champion recruiting match.

for the imperium, you could have the imperial factions representing different factions within the imperium with conflicting interests, that finally ends in bloodshed. for example: the guard was sent by the AdMech for blah reasons, while the UM's were sent by the =I= for blah reasons. they both want the same thing for themselves, and can't return to their allies empty handed, so decide to go get it before the other guy gets it, but lo and behold, the other guy's going for it, so they decide to take them out so they can take it for themselves, and so on.
this is the cool thing about the 40k background, as anyone could be the "bad guys" or the "good guys" one day, then the opposite the next.

[Aenir]

Paintball match... that explains why my Deathwing isnt bone white, and why most of my guys refuse to wear robes... they are a pain in the *** to clean

[eldargal]

'Mr Calgar?
'Yes little Brother Jimmy?'
'Planetary Governor Bob said Roboute Guilliman liked little boys and Lord Commissar Cecil lol'd and called me a 'dumbarse smurf'.'
'Time to take those *******s down, little Brother Jimmy.'

[Aldramelech]

'Mr Calgar?
'Yes little Brother Jimmy?'
'Planetary Governor Bob said Roboute Guilliman liked little boys and Lord Commissar Cecil lol'd and called me a 'dumbarse smurf'.'
'Time to take those *******s down, little Brother Jimmy.'

"No way man"
"Yes way"
"Harsh"
"He cant go around talking **** like that man, cause I got self esteem issues and ****"
"Bumer"
"Word"

[Lord Azaghul]

The next day.
'Mr Calagr?'
Yes Brother Jimmy?
'All those Marines that we're supposed to teach those guard a lession...'
Yes?
Well they died...all of them.!
What How, we had power armour and drop pods!
Yes I know but they out number us 3 to 1, and lots of tanks and worse
Worse?
Yes sure, cover, lots of cover!

[Cryl]

The next day.
'Mr Calagr?'
Yes Brother Jimmy?
'All those Marines that we're supposed to teach those guard a lession...'
Yes?
Well they died...all of them.!
What How, we had power armour and drop pods!
Yes I know but they out number us 3 to 1, and lots of tanks and worse
Worse?
Yes sure, cover, lots of cover!

"Mr Calgar I say we take off and nuke the whole site from orbit, the only way to be sure..."
"Good plan Jimmy, to the thunderhawk mobile"

[Sam]

There are several ways to justify this type of battle:

1. Training Exercises: A rather tame but effective justification (unless there are non-imperial elements involved as well).

2. Mistaken Identity: One or both sides believe the other to be traitors.

3. Conflicting Orders: The Departmento Munitorum, Adeptus Astartes, Inquisition, etc. and their component parts all have their own agendas, and with the exception of the Inquisition (at least in theory) none of these organizations have any authority over the others.

I can't really think of a situation at the moment that doesn't fall into these categories of Imperial vs. Imperial battles, assuming that both sides are loyalists.