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  1. #8871
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    It wasn't illegal to rape your spouse until the 90's :/

  2. #8872

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gotthammer View Post
    It wasn't illegal to rape your spouse until the 90's :/
    Pathetic isn't it?
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  3. #8873
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    Yep. But good news on that law. Important to make people aware of what it is and the damage it does so if you're in it you can hopefully recognise it and get help before it gets too damaging.

  4. #8874
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gotthammer View Post
    Indeed, but people also need to realise that EG, Kirsten and myself (the main "offenders" of nega-feminism) are just three people (well EG isn't, we all know she's not really a real person but that's besides the point) so saying things like "EG is rude and gets wound up so I no longer support feminism" just makes you, the general you, seem like you're not really interested in or understanding of women's issues.
    Quite true! I find a lot of responses a bit “pointed”, but in general, classify the overall responses as “direct” rather than “rude”. And direct responses are very necessary to move things along. Overall social progress moves like a glacier, and a little heat can cause it to retreat far quicker than it advances. Probably a crap metaphor but I’ve had too much coffee to properly focus my thoughts atm.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gotthammer View Post
    Because feminism is a life and death issue, as has been illustrated so may times by this very thread, so if you're aware of that not supporting the efforts of it because one person discussing it in their spare time said something is just... I don't know how to put it.
    There is no plausible reason for people to not support the goals of feminism, it harms no one while evening the field for everyone… The methods of individuals can be debated, but that’s true of everything in life.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gotthammer View Post
    Metaphor brought to you by my eating while typing.
    A very good metaphor that illustrated your point very well!

    Quote Originally Posted by Gotthammer View Post
    Because if these people never dispute the answers they're given (which includes the facts about all that), they have to agree with them don't they? It'd just be weird for them to ask questions and be given long, carefully worded and sourced answers that specifically address all their points only to ignore it completely and harp on about how feminism is wrong because reasons? I mean it's not like they're not actually reading the answers or ignoring them when it clashes with their world view, surely the only issue in this thread is that the women here aren't constantly nice and helpful and calm all the time, right?
    The frustrations involved in trying to make a point with real data only to have it blatantly ignored must be maddening. My best guess as to why this comes up is these folks are relying on personal feelings over facts leading to two different conversations occurring at the same time with no connective tissue…
    It actually parallels with an early life changing lesson I learned in Corporate politics which is that “Perception > Reality”. I refused to believe this for over a decade before realizing that it’s related to the way our minds are hard wired… now as much as I want reality to be king, managing perceptions leads to better outcomes. Honestly though it still leaves me feeling a little dirty.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Gotthammer View Post
    It wasn't illegal to rape your spouse until the 90's :/
    I presume this was tied to the archaic belief that a spouse was property?

    Serious question: Is it possible for a woman to rape a man? This actually came up recently in an employee misconduct investigation and I'm having a hard time wrapping my brain around it.
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  5. #8875

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gotthammer View Post
    It wasn't illegal to rape your spouse until the 90's :/
    What's worse is that there have been surveys done where large numbers of men and women not only don't know it is illegal now to rape your spouse, but don't even know that forcing or coercing a spouse into sex IS rape because of this idea that being with a partner entitles them to sex.

    40kgamer, yes women can rape men. Absolutely yes.
    Ask not the EldarGal a question, for she will give you three answers, all of which are puns and terrifying to know. Back off man, I'm a feminist. Ia! Ia! Gloppal Snode!

  6. #8876

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    Yup.

    It may not be recognised in law, but believe me. It's possible.
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  7. #8877
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    @40K-G - yeah part of the pointedness is in a way if you sugar coat things "yes not all men do this only the really bad ones and we know you guys are cool but..." it removes the room for self analysis. If I say men are garbage because- you'll likely say "I don't do that!" which is great! But maybe you do actually do that thing, or something like it. As you say perception is key, and if you perceive yourself as a good person and I only say bad people do a thing you're obviously going to automatically discount the possibility you do the thing.

    And to answer your question absolutely. As to the mechanics of it a physical sexual response can be elicited from stimulus even when not mentally enjoying it (this applies to men and women and can lead to great unpleasantness with the conflict of knowing you didn't enjoy it but having the physical response [and society's views on that] telling you you "really enjoyed it").


    Quote Originally Posted by eldargal View Post
    because of this idea that being with a partner entitles them to sex.
    The UK Criminal Law Revision Committee in their 1984 Report on Sexual Offences rejected the idea that the offence of rape should be extended to marital relations; writing the following:

    "The majority of us ... believe that rape cannot be considered in the abstract as merely 'sexual intercourse without consent'. The circumstances of rape may be peculiarly grave. This feature is not present in the case of a husband and wife cohabiting with each other when an act of sexual intercourse occurs without the wife's consent. They may well have had sexual intercourse regularly before the act in question and, because a sexual relationship may involve a degree of compromise, she may sometimes have agreed only with some reluctance to such intercourse.

    Should he go further and force her to have sexual intercourse without her consent, this may evidence a failure of the marital relationship.

    But it is far from being the 'unique' and 'grave' offence described earlier. Where the husband goes so far as to cause injury, there are available a number of offences against the person with which he may be charged, but the gravamen of the husband's conduct is the injury he has caused not the sexual intercourse he has forced."

  8. #8878
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    Quote Originally Posted by eldargal View Post
    40kgamer, yes women can rape men. Absolutely yes.
    This whole damn incident is leaving a bad taste in my mouth. I wish one of these twits had gotten the police involved cause without an actual investigation the whole thing comes down to their 'very different' personal versions of events. I play life off of probabilities so I'm inclined to side with the lady's version of events but there is absolutely zero objective evidence! Seriously who doesn't call the police with this ****!
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  9. #8879

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    Depressing to think that was within my lifetime.

    But, heartening to know that however slowly, much needed progress is being made.
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  10. #8880

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    Quote Originally Posted by 40kGamer View Post
    This whole damn incident is leaving a bad taste in my mouth. I wish one of these twits had gotten the police involved cause without an actual investigation the whole thing comes down to their 'very different' personal versions of events. I play life off of probabilities so I'm inclined to side with the lady's version of events but there is absolutely zero objective evidence! Seriously who doesn't call the police with this ****!
    Well for men calling the police can be an extremely humiliating experience, largely because there is a belief that men always want sex so can't be raped or can always overpower the woman so can't be raped. So if you ARE raped, there must be something wrong with you. It's a deeply despicable and misogynist notion of course, effectively punishing men because rape 'only happens to women' because men are too strong to be raped.

    Women often don't call the police because then their entire lives and characters will be gone over with a fined toothed comb and they will be humiliated and re-traumatised and all for only the most marginal chances of seeing justice.
    Ask not the EldarGal a question, for she will give you three answers, all of which are puns and terrifying to know. Back off man, I'm a feminist. Ia! Ia! Gloppal Snode!

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