A Crash Course in Feminism Mk. II (or, why everyone should be a feminist)

[Morgrim]

Was he? That's now how it sounded. He broke down after saying he knew he offended a lot of people, it didn't sound like a reaction to harassment but him being genuinely upset and sincerely sorry for the incident.

Also no, they didn't. They didn't know he didn't mean it, they reacted with genuine anger over something that like I said is symptomaic of a problem which destroys womens lives and careers. They were angry because they saw a prominent scientist on television apparently happily objectifying women. The oppressed should not be expected to always conduct themselves in a manner which makes the more privileged comfortable. There are certain lines which shouldn't be crossed, death threats, threats of violence etc. But I didn't see much of that.

Unfortunately there was actually a small group that went way over the line and past 'harassment' and well into death threats against him, mostly involving the Google Hangouts that was done. *grimaces* Which seriously Does Not Help feminism.

[CoffeeGrunt]

Part of me feels the real crazies are dudes doing it to make Feminism look bad...

[Psychosplodge]

If they're throwaway accounts that would be a reasonable theory.
Or as always with the internet/twitter there are arseholes and trolls.
Does anyone know if they are?

[Mr Mystery]

[url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-30143662]Ladybird books do away with books for boys and books for girls[/url]

[Kirsten]

the record price for art by a woman has been smashed, but is still massively behind the record set for art sold by a man...

[url]http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-30142581[/url]

[eldargal]

Part of me feels the real crazies are dudes doing it to make Feminism look bad...

Some are. Most of the extreme 'SJWs' that people love to mock tumblr for are actually troll accounts for example, and 4channers are known for setting up fake accounts on social media to take ridiculously extreme positions and try and create an image problem for feminism. Other times its people misrepresenting things, like the 'feminist' who advocates killing 80% of the male population. MRAs love citing her the trouble is she is a self proclaimed anti-feminist.

[Kirsten]

stealing snippets from something Gott posted in the general gaming thread:

"many of these people honestly believe that their position is neutral, apolitical, that it is not, itself, a deeply political agenda in support of the status quo and against anything that seeks to call the status quo into question... Those who are attacking women in gaming spaces, attacking “social justice warriors” and the idea of video game criticism that analyzes the sociopolitical values of games, see people who engage in such criticism (people like me) as trying to bring about an imbalance to something that was already perfectly balanced and neutral. If they had the capability to put themselves in the shoes of people different from themselves more often, if media asked that of them or if their own ability to empathize and see things from the perspective of others was simply well-developed enough, they might better be able to understand that things are already deeply imbalanced and that we are trying to bring a little more balance to these spaces."

this is one of the main issues with feminism, a lot of men see a system that looks fair and balanced, everything looks fine, so where is the issue? they believe the world is fair, therefore any attempt to change the status quo must by its' very nature be a move into something less fair. this spreads in to things like laws, jury verdicts, media interpretations, the status quo is what is important, and a lot of people will support that because it is presented as being balanced and fair. so even if they don't necessarily agree with it, it must be fine really...

[Mud Duck]

stealing snippets from something Gott posted in the general gaming thread:

"many of these people honestly believe that their position is neutral, apolitical, that it is not, itself, a deeply political agenda in support of the status quo and against anything that seeks to call the status quo into question... Those who are attacking women in gaming spaces, attacking “social justice warriors” and the idea of video game criticism that analyzes the sociopolitical values of games, see people who engage in such criticism (people like me) as trying to bring about an imbalance to something that was already perfectly balanced and neutral. If they had the capability to put themselves in the shoes of people different from themselves more often, if media asked that of them or if their own ability to empathize and see things from the perspective of others was simply well-developed enough, they might better be able to understand that things are already deeply imbalanced and that we are trying to bring a little more balance to these spaces."

this is one of the main issues with feminism, a lot of men see a system that looks fair and balanced, everything looks fine, so where is the issue? they believe the world is fair, therefore any attempt to change the status quo must by its' very nature be a move into something less fair. this spreads in to things like laws, jury verdicts, media interpretations, the status quo is what is important, and a lot of people will support that because it is presented as being balanced and fair. so even if they don't necessarily agree with it, it must be fine really...

yes and no. Men see a system that works, not necessarily one that is fair. Any change to that system should not be a fast one, as that may 'break' the system.

[eldargal]

A system that works for them. Not anyone else.

No system which actively prevents half the species reaching their full potential and contributing fully to society can be said to really work.

[Mr Mystery]

Men complain women are mental - and many do seem to be.

Women grow up in a society which will say 'reward yourself with cake', then scream 'NOT THAT MUCH, FATSO'.

Women grow up in a society that say it's what's inside that counts - and then constantly judges them on their appearance.

Women grow up in a society that praises new mothers that are able to snap back 'into shape' (a shape defined by said society to be pleasing, because reasons) - subtely suggesting mothers that don't are somehow failing their children and husbands, but never points out the very women able to do that can afford a Nanny, a Personal Trainer, and the time to work out to the point where getting back 'in shape' is actually fairly easy, on account they don't have a 9-5 job to do as well.


And with all that 'push you, pull you' from all sides at all times - we wonder why many seem irrational. It's simple - they've grown up in a society which ensures they don't know themselves, or which way to turn. Constant, relentless, conflicting judgement against pretty much impossible standards, which even if you can achieve them, are in a state of constant flux.

Another one - if you're pretty, and have a nip/tuck - it's laudable, because reasons. If however you have a nip/tuck to achieve beauty - then you're some kind of god awful monster and liar.