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  1. #5391
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    I thought we discussed that there were no reliable stats on that sort of assault?
    Fan of Fuggles | Derailment of the Wolfpack of Horsemen | In girum imus nocte et consumimur igni

  2. #5392

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    Only unreliable if you think what victims and support groups are saying is unreliable.
    Ask not the EldarGal a question, for she will give you three answers, all of which are puns and terrifying to know. Back off man, I'm a feminist. Ia! Ia! Gloppal Snode!

  3. #5393
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    For it to be true in just Enlgnad they would need to have a sample size of around 10,000 and that is only for all people who are
    alive that very day, if you expand it to their life time you need to expand that sample by their age and population growth rates.
    And that is with a 5% error, e.g. it could be over/under represented almost 3 million times...

    But, aside from their not being a world survey that has a large enough sample size, there are fundamental issues with any self-reporting surveys regardless of the question being asked.
    Unless these victims and support groups have found a way to resolve those issues then yes, they are unreliable.
    Fan of Fuggles | Derailment of the Wolfpack of Horsemen | In girum imus nocte et consumimur igni

  4. #5394

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    Whatever, there are plenty of studies that have come up with similar figures from basically all the English speaking countries. I am going to believe them rather than someone quibbling about it on the internet.
    Ask not the EldarGal a question, for she will give you three answers, all of which are puns and terrifying to know. Back off man, I'm a feminist. Ia! Ia! Gloppal Snode!

  5. #5395

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    [URL="https://uk.news.yahoo.com/uk-worst-country-face-sexism-094659530.html"]UK Worst Country For 'In Your Face' Sexism[/URL]
    Honestly I can believe this, based on my own experience here vs many of the other countries I've traveled to.
    Ask not the EldarGal a question, for she will give you three answers, all of which are puns and terrifying to know. Back off man, I'm a feminist. Ia! Ia! Gloppal Snode!

  6. #5396
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    You can believe whatever you wish, it really doesn't impact on the veracity of it.
    Many studies may come to the same conclusions but will all have the same systematic errors, because self-reporting studies have this problem. The more intimate the question being asked the suspected less results are.

    Studies that then build from each others previous results for mutually corrobartion (or concurrent validity studies) are of limited usefulness, one only needs to look at non-emotive subjects like the "Hubble constant". There were two schools of thought that both thought themselves right and most experiments then agreed with one or the other main "teams" so you ended up with a whole host of studies that claimed their value was correct and another that their value were, the de Vaucouleurs vs Sandage types. As it turns out both were out.

    I am not saying that it is not an issue, I am not saying that it should not be something to be wary of. What I am saying is that as any one who has done even the slightest amount of research will tell you, self reporting surveys are notoriously unreliable. So you can believe the others of those papers and almost any paper written by psychologists, sociologists etc.
    Fan of Fuggles | Derailment of the Wolfpack of Horsemen | In girum imus nocte et consumimur igni

  7. #5397

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    Support groups who are seeing x number of women a year every year and keeping records and working with other groups who are seeing x number of women a year are going to have a fair idea of the scale of the problem actually. The experts working on the front line to help victims are going to have a better idea than someone on the internet nitpicking about statistics
    Ask not the EldarGal a question, for she will give you three answers, all of which are puns and terrifying to know. Back off man, I'm a feminist. Ia! Ia! Gloppal Snode!

  8. #5398
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    Of course they are going to have a better idea, I don't believe that I ever said that I had a better idea.
    What I did say is that any form of self reporting is notoriously unreliable. For example, you say x people a year a seen, then you have two further populations the y people who are unseen and the z people who are not actual victims. You cannot count those people which don't turn up you do not know how many they are, you can make educated guesses but they would be subject to a statistical error. Similiarly, you have the z people who turn up get counted as victims who aren't, I am certainly not going to make any speculation of to the size and scope of this population in relation to x other than to say generally, in self reporting surveys of this personal nature tend to be very small.
    I am sure that they accurately count. It is how you extrapolate those figures across a life-time or an entire population where the isues are. It is purely a statistical dilema and people who go around dropping stats for impact should be fully aware of the limitations of extrapolated stats and self-reported stats.
    I am sure these experts are experts at helping vicitims but that is not what we are talking about. I am sure that those who compile the statsitics do every thing that they can to minimise error and systematic issues, but when dealing with people you cannot eliminate all of them.

    For instance, you cite your 1 in 4, I cite the CSEW:
    In the last year, 7.3% of women and 5.0% of men reported having experienced domestic abuse, equivalent to an estimated 1.2 million female victims and 800,000 male victims. There was no statistically significant change in the level of domestic abuse experienced in the last year between the 2010/11 and 2011/12 surveys.
    ([url]http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/crime-stats/crime-statistics/focus-on-violent-crime/stb-focus-on--violent-crime-and-sexual-offences-2011-12.html#tab-Types-of-violence-–-domestic-violence--sexual-offences-and-intimate-violence[/url])

    This is what I mean by the statistics are unreliable, not that anyone is attempting to decieve any one, just that with low reported rates, and I think we would agree that not every victim reports every attack, just that because of these issues and extrapolation such stats are unreliable.
    Fan of Fuggles | Derailment of the Wolfpack of Horsemen | In girum imus nocte et consumimur igni

  9. #5399
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    Wolfshade, I know you're not intending to but just letting you know that you're kind of coming across as 'we cannot trust these people to be telling the truth, so we can assume the problem is not so bad'.

    Personally I've seen statistics ranging from 1 in 4 to 1 in 8. Obviously in terms of statistics that is a huge and some would say unreliable range. However, if you look at it socially the absolute best case scenario is still that women have a significant chance of being sexually assaulted and this desperately needs addressing. Incidentally I feel that if estimates from many sources and methods are giving figures in the same ballpark it suggests they're decent approximations, so if surveys and studies and comparing medical reports are all lining up that is a good sign.

    Perhaps the best evidence is that huge independent study done a few years ago that asked a large, representational cross section of men what behaviours they'd engaged in and found that as long as you don't call it rape, a matching number of men admit to having committed sexual assault.
    Kabal of Venomed Dreams

  10. #5400
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    I fail to see why "feminists" are needed when woman are treated the same as men in my country (Mind you things are different here) However no mater what happens we have pissed off people protesting..........
    Potential war gameing Jawa.

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