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  1. #9211

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfshade View Post
    No, it is primarily a cultural issue.
    Of which religion is a large component, arguably inseparable for some countries.
    Read the above in a Tachikoma voice.

  2. #9212
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    No.

    Egypt, Eritrea, Ethiopia all have mixed Christian Moslem populations, indeed Eritrea is majority christian but has 89% FGM rate, yet in all the western countries with christian majorities the rate is much lower (usually centred on immigrant populations).

    Iraq, is only at around 8% (and associated to the Kurdish population predominately), but is massively muslim country.

    It just doesn't add up.

    If it were religious then it would be observed everywhere that religion is practiced which isn't the case.

    There is no precedent in any of the Abrahamic faiths that support it in the religious texts. Indeed, evidence suggests that the practice in Egypt was from the time of the Pharaohs.
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  3. #9213

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    Quote Originally Posted by CoffeeGrunt View Post
    He also called us out for not discussing FGM...when we have. Again, it's a primarily-religious issue, and we know how tough it can be to stop those.
    Nope:

    She is gynocentric as she regards the Mens Rights issues as non issues. I'll rephrase, by her own words, she regards the deaths of babies who have been subject t genital mutilation gone wrong, losing the one life they'll ever have [url]http://www.circumcision.org/mortality.htm[/url], as a "non issue" when I guarantee, GUARANTEE that if any part of a baby girl's vagina were being mutilated today, even a little, feminists like her would lose their mind.
    He talks about MALE genital mutilation beeing seen a non-issue while everyone is going crazy about FGM. There is even a link.
    Also FGM is no religious thing, its cultural as Wolfshade already pointed out.
    While male genital mutilation is indeed a religious thing.
    I may have worded it too boldly. No I don't believe it will solve the issue, but it may help, and if nothing else, it won't make it worse.
    This is not a given. We could as well see a rise in suicide rates/depression. We know very little about where biology ends and artficial social structures start.


    Don't get me wrong. I agree on most parts. But I hate the rethoric used.
    Basically you are told to shut the **** up cause a male can't possibly know about female issues and non-issues.
    On the other hand females are quite happy to comment and male issues as if they know.
    The solution is always "easy" and is good for everyone, except that we do not know that.
    I also fail to see how feminism is supposed to stop rape. Harder punishments do nothing as countries with death senteces have proven and just because the gernal public has aknowledged that stealing property or killing another human beeing is a very bad thing we haven't stopped theft and muder yet.
    Last edited by Charon; 01-27-2015 at 01:53 AM.

  4. #9214

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    Quote Originally Posted by Charon View Post
    Nope: He talks about MALE genital mutilation beeing seen a non-issue while everyone is going crazy about FGM. There is even a link.
    Also FGM is no religious thing, its cultural as Wolfshade already pointed out.
    While male genital mutilation is indeed a religious thing.
    I'm going to be honest, in this thread at least that could be more to do with a lot of the people being British. I can't speak for Feminism as a whole, but in Britain circumcision is very rare.

    I also honestly don't know enough about the issue to comment on it, but after some Googling, it seems like it is something that should be stopped, and there appears to be many sites and groups dedicated to it. IMO the fact that very few MGM procedures are documented is worrying, it should be more regulated.

    Quote Originally Posted by Charon View Post
    This is not a given. We could as well see a rise in suicide rates/depression. We know very little about where biology ends and artficial social structures start.
    Indeed, but we tried a very tight and forced gender role society in the past, and society immediately tried its best to break out of that. In fact, ever since it's been loosening the demands, but moreso in recent decades. I don't think significantly more men were happy in the 50s when the Nuclear Family was the be-all, end-all. However, that's too far back to get reliable figures on depression, because the cultural answers were, "that's for women, now have a pint and a smoke to forget your troubles."

    There were a lot of unhappy women, though, so now the thought process is perhaps we should try a more level society less-focused on gender roles. Naturally, society hates change, and just like all the myths and demands claiming that giving black people more rights was unfair, we're seeing those same trends against women, except more subtly and less focused.

    Making lives better for men is important, naturally, but not at the cost of making life crap for women. That's the part I find staggering, when people are trying to decry any attempts to mitigate rape in our society, while claiming it's the woe of the perpetrator for a ruined career. I'm not vindictive, but let's face it, they made their choice. There should be consequences, but simple punishment never works. We need a better system to stop repeat offenders of all crimes, really.

    Quote Originally Posted by Charon View Post
    Don't get me wrong. I agree on most parts. But I hate the rethoric used.
    Basically you are told to shut the **** up cause a male can't possibly know about female issues and non-issues.
    On the other hand females are quite happy to comment and male issues as if they know.
    The solution is always "easy" and is good for everyone, except that we do not know that.
    Not knowing what a social change may bring never stops us, unless it's to give another group rights. It's sad we were far more comfortable with building nuclear reactors in our towns than we are letting gay people marry.

    As a male, the discourse is part of the parcel here. You're discussing with people, trying to understand another world view. If you hold onto your own so religiously, then you will get angry at this thread if it's at odds with the message here.

    Yes, I thought it was a crock of bullsh*t when I first came here. But I sat, lurked, read and thought over things. I chatted with friends, my sisters, looked at the media just a little bit more closely. I tried to think what it would be like to be the target of so much image disparagement, to have every part of the society that cares to give you attention telling you you're worthless. I thought about the times growing up and hanging around at parties, and the times people told, "it's okay, she's drunk but she wanted it," when I could tell she didn't but hey, girls are just emotional...right?

    It's interesting to look into, and the more I have the more worrying things look. It's ruined movies I loved, shows I adored, characters I respected because I can see how women look at that crap and how they might feel. I sorta wish I could go back to ignoring it and labelling women as ineffable entities, only ever referred to as, 'so-and-so's missus,' or 'that fit one there, in the jeggings.' It's amazing once you realise just how much you stripped a group of its humanity entirely unwittingly, because that's the way things are, and everyone told me so growing up.

    I have a few girl friends who aren't feminists but agree with what they say. They just don't wear the label because it invites men to persecute you for standing up for yourself. It's sad, and analogous to a lot of historical oppression, but so widespread and deep-set that we accept it as the natural order.

    No more, at least for me. I just don't think a lot of the things society does are morally conscionable. Yes this extends far beyond the treatment of women, and yes there are other, massive problems in this world, but this thread is about Feminism, protecting women's rights, and thus that is what we discuss.

    Quote Originally Posted by Charon View Post
    I also fail to see how feminism is supposed to stop rape. Harder punishments do nothing as countries with death senteces have proven and just because the gernal public has aknowledged that stealing property or killing another human beeing is a very bad thing we haven't stopped theft and muder yet.
    The argument that doing something doesn't completely solve the problem isn't a reason for continuing to do that thing if it reduces the problem.

    Come on, Charon, of course crime will persist, but are you going to advocate we stop using police because crime in general hasn't been solved? Of course not, so why should anti-rape measures not be tested and trialled? If they reduce it by even a fraction of a percentage, then that's worthwhile.

    In fact, when population increase and increased rate of reporting crimes are taken into account, [URL="http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm"]the crime rate has been declining since 1990.[/URL] Rape has descended from 41.2 per 10K, to 25.2 per 10K, for example. In fact, as far as I can tell almost every sort of crime has, and that's a trend across a few figure-providers I looked into.

    So it is working, and with that in mind, I support it fully.
    Read the above in a Tachikoma voice.

  5. #9215

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    Feminism can help reduce rape by educating what rape actually is.

    The common perception of rape involves violence, or otherwise physical domination of the victim. But there's other forms.

    Emotional/psychological manipulation to the point where the victim feels they cannot say no to the rapist? That's rape.

    Constant badgering and harassment, so they put out to make you leave off? That's rape.

    Any form of coercion is rape.

    Example that springs immediately to mind? 28 Days Later, when Selena offers herself up the Soldiers to spare Hannah? That would still be a rape of Selena - her consent has been coerced.

    Another one? Ched Evans. Still doesn't accept that he's a rapist, despite agreeing he shagged an unconscious woman. Even if we look at his best case scenario there, where some kind of sexual contact took place before hand (including snogging), that is not a carte blanche to just finish the job.

    Julian Assange - had consenting sex with the girl, then decided to return for a non-consensual second helping (according to the allegations, I must point that out, as the pathetic little worm refuses to expose himself to the same scrutiny he demands all others are held to, because he's a special snowflake like that).

    All the above are instances of rape. It may not be a conscious rape, but it's still rape as defined in law.

    Very, very few men would ever be proud of being a rapist, or wish to be one. Education, a large part of what feminism wants, is the key to this. Yes, you will still get people off their rockers perpetrating violent rape. You will still get people insisting too much. But it can all be reduced through education and feminism.

    Breaking the societal vision of women as property or a commodity will help reduce rape.

    But most importantly? Feminism will not increase instances of rape.
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  6. #9216
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  7. #9217
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    Cast of all-female Ghostbusters announced :
    [url]http://www.blastr.com/2015-1-27/all-female-ghostbusters-movie-has-been-cast-heres-who-youre-gonna-call[/url]

    The majority of comments remind me why I'd rather not live on this planet anymore though, sadly.
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  8. #9218

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    Butthurt fanboys angsty at change? Whodathunkit!

    While I'm not familiar with any of the cast, I'll wait 'til the movie hits to see how good it is. I agree with one commenter that Wanda Sykes would have been great in this, even if she is a little typecast.
    Read the above in a Tachikoma voice.

  9. #9219
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    As a fan of SNL for many years, the cast are excellent, dare I say, better comedy actors than any of the original cast.

  10. #9220

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    Quote Originally Posted by Path Walker View Post
    As a fan of SNL for many years, the cast are excellent, dare I say, better comedy actors than any of the original cast.

    Never seen SNL myself, but I do believe it's the very same stable 3 of the original 4 Ghostbusters came from.
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