A Crash Course in Feminism Mk. II (or, why everyone should be a feminist)

[scadugenga]

[url]http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/notting-hill-carnival-selfie-goes-viral-after-woman-punched-in-face-for-telling-man-to-stop-groping-her-9693514.html[/url]

Two women were physically assaulted after they told men to stop sexually assaulting them. Seriously, what sort of scum gropes a women, gets told not to, does it again and then punches her in the face?

The kind of scum that are wasting the communal oxygen.

[scadugenga]

Okay—point. I should have prefaced my post that I’m in serious sleep-deficit mode this week. I misread the “consume things you don’t like” bit.

6) It’s an absolutist statement, which should ring warning bells to all and sundry. There cannot be absolutes when it comes to something like allegations of sexism. Should the allegation be taken seriously? Absolutely, but it should not automatically be assumed as gospel truth on word alone.

9) Unless there are concerns about the safety of the vaccine. (no, I’m not an anti-vaccer) but when employees of a children’s hospital are concerned about the dangers (and relative merit) of the vaccine—I’ll wait to see what the conclusions are.

13) Privilege is almost always (at least experientially here in the US) used by elitist hipster jackholes to nullify anything that might disagree with their worldview. There has been no real “honest” discussion about privilege in any of the people I’ve actually conversed with face-to-face (IE, not over the internet) that hasn’t degenerated into a “*snap* you just cannot understand your privilege” conversation ender. And again—the income/autonomy/sharing duties bit was already well covered under separate points.

17) Personal health and hygiene really has nothing to do with supporting feminism. It’s grasping at best. People are responsible for their own well-being.

19) Trusting the media to provide accurate and fact-checked news is a chump game lately. Independent news blogging is oddly enough proving more reliable than established media. However, absolutely—particularly in my country, do you have a bunch of idiot conservative men telling women what is legal to do with their bodies—and it’s atrocious. That being said—when I read an article, I honestly do not check the byline. I do not care who wrote the piece. I just want to read it, and analyze it based on the content. Though I will concede that many people do not follow the same path.

20) Typo. (again, sleep-deficit) Meant to say unless a particular person has no female mentors/heroes in their personal experience. Which is not all that uncommon. While male abusers are certainly the majority, they are not alone. There are also deadbeat moms, etc. Personally, I’m very fortunate that not only did I have a flawed, but great mother, I also had many women mentors/bosses who were truly excellent in their roles.

23) I’m merely pointing out that this particular point specifically targets the male partner as the underlying reason why the female partner is lashing out/nagging. Which is ridiculous. (e.g.: my wife has many stressors that can set her off—that have absolutely zero to do with me or my actions. She’ll snap at me when she’s actually upset due to a completely unrelated matter. Is it right? No. However I can also understand the underlying cause and we’ll eventually discuss things after she cools down.) The author of the list seems to equate #23 as “if she’s mad/lashing out at you (male), it’s your (male) fault.” Which is BS. Life is more complicated than that.
26) I wouldn’t actually. See 20 above.  Fortunately, I’ve been blessed to be around completely awesome and empowered women. Whether they take on more “traditional” roles, or embrace the ideology that the universe is theirs for the taking.

30) The title gave the impression that, as a man, I should actively insert feminist discussion topics into already existing conversations. “So, what did you think about the new Tesla recall, Scad?” “Hmm, interesting—but first, let’s talk about glass ceilings and how women are under represented in the corporate hierarchy outside of HR.” *That* is what I took away from the title of #30. As I said-I completely grok the actual intent. The title just needs serious reworking.

33) Because no one should be forced (outside of legal taxation) to surrender a percentage of their income. It’s ridiculous. Also—after reading this article, it really debunks the 23% pay gap as a myth: [url]http://www.huffingtonpost.com/christina-hoff-sommers/wage-gap_b_2073804.html[/url].

34) [url]http://clarissasblog.com/2011/10/01/why-male-privilege-list-is-garbage-part-ii/[/url] Gender privilege in a free society is bunk. (personal opinion) Do we live in a sexist society? Absolutely. But that’s not exactly making the argument of “male privilege” any more justified. Ethnic privilege? I’ll absolutely buy into that. Hell, Ferguson, MO is a glaring example of this. I earn more? You know how many years it took me to finally equal what my wife made—at a non-profit hospital? When we both went to grad school? Ha. (okay, anecdotal—but still personally apropos.) And again, pay disparity has been debunked significantly. By the American Association of University Women. Gender privilege in a non-free society (e.g.: say, any place governed under Sharia law) is absolutely another matter entirely. The etymology of privilege comes from the concept of a “private law” of one elite subset as opposed to the rest of the people.

We’re going to likely disagree on the concept and applicability of “privilege” as applied to gender in a free society. I’m okay with disagreeing. Fortunately, that’s the benefit when discussing a hot topic with someone you respect. You can disagree without it devolving into something ugly.

It’s actually illegal here to base hiring/promotion practices based on pregnancy. I’m sure some jackholes will try and get away with it, but that’s why we have a legal system, a well funded ACLU, and (hopefully for the plaintiff) a good attorney who knows how to forum-shop. Actually, fatherhood gets you jack here. No paid paternity leave, and if I want to use FLA to take unpaid leave, I get a max of 50% of what a mother gets. And I can tell you I get in trouble with work if I have to take emergency PTO to care for my sick kids. Because it counts as “previously unscheduled time off.” Which is bunk. It’s more socially acceptable in my workplace (large national corporation) for a woman to take emergency PTO for sick kids. Stupid.

5: Fortunately, I’m a very intuitive person and aware of nonverbal communication. (Which, for the abnormally tall, should almost be required learning to function in any kind of social setting amongst the vaster more vertically challenged population) So it’s easier for me to judge when/when not to make an intervention in a setting. Other people, while well-meaning, are clueless, and can actually make the situation worse. A woman friend of mine slapped the appellation “gene-pool lifeguard” on me one night at a club for that very reason.

10: My wife and I actually discussed this prior to the wedding. She asked me my thoughts on it. I replied “I’m marrying you for who you are. Your married surname has nothing to do with our getting married.” It was a pretty short conversation. I personally believe that requiring someone to take another’s surname is ridiculous. I can see why some people *want* to—but let them make the choice, don’t force them into it. My wife told me after she changed her married name to mine (oddly enough, without hyphenation—which is the social norm in the medical field) that it was my lack of concern over the surname issue that let her make the decision freely. Personally, if you marry someone, and then require them to fundamentally change their identity (something that is indelibly linked to names) then you aren’t ready to get married. At least to someone you consider an equal.

12) Exactly—it is all about choice. I agree fully. Except—you really don’t want me to cook a lot. Truly. I do wash dishes with the best of them, however.

15) What I meant is that it’s a discussion that can’t honestly be summed up in one or two sentences. It deserves a fully well thought out exchange of thoughts/ideas/positions. I wasn’t dismissing the concept.

18) Again—personally I have an advantage because I am very cognizant of body language. Perceiving and understanding non-verbal communication is very important. And, as I said, it’s still a very fine line.

28) I was actually coming at this through the “couple” filter, not really discussing society at large. (IE, male and female partners “policing” each other in terms of wardrobe, etc.) I actually (shudder) wrote a blog entry many moons ago about exactly what I think of the “women’s fashion/beauty industry” and how they poison girls and women.

32) I know that (the intent—not your specific height (only a 5” difference between us. That’s kinda cool.)) Flying from Chicago to Dublin, Ireland on a fully booked “Leprechaun” airlines (Aer Lingus) flight almost crippled me. Short or average guys (like the dirtbag in the photo Gotthamer posted) either deserve public shaming (“so, airing out the fungal infection?”) or a swift crotch-shot.

35) I’m very wary around identifying as any kind of ‘ism’. Personal prejudice there. 

And again—thank you for being willing to engage in a rational, respectful communication on the subject—particularly re: privilege. That’s almost impossible to find over on this side of the pond.

[eldargal]

6. No one is saying that, but the fact is if a woman says something is sexist she is going to know more than you. You don't understand how things you think of as small and irrelevant can fit into a larger pattern of micro and macro aggression that women deal with.

9. Sure but that is another issue entirely.

13. The people you've debated it with are not necessarily doing it right, it is a hard topic to discuss because it challenges our own perception of how we are treated and how much of our own success is truly our own. [URL="http://finallyfeminism101.wordpress.com/2007/03/11/faq-what-is-male-privilege/"]This is a decent article on the concept[/URL]. The key thing to remember is that privilege is how society treats you, it isn't anything to do with you specifically, it isn't reprehensible to have privilege because you don't ask for it or have any choice in the matter. It's why I hate the 'check your privilege' thing because saying that to someone who is unaware of their privilege (which is why you are arguing surely) helps no one because if they don't understand it telling them to check it won't help.

17. Yes it does, when male health directly impacts on women's financial well being.

19. It's really easy to just be interested in the opinion when the opinions of your gender aren't being suppressed.

20. It's not hard to find female heroes if you look. There are plenty of women out there doing amazing things, we just tend to hear about the men.

23. It's saying you should listen to your wife instead of nagging and that if nagging continues it is probably your fault, which in my observation of relationships is usually true. Men do not listen to women, even women they love, the way they ought to because our culture tells them that women nag and the correct thing to do is just roll your eyes and ignore it because women, eh?

30. I think its clear it is saying to discuss feminism in relevant contexts, such as when a friend makes a sexist joke or make some remark about women being unfairly advanted in legal proceedings (which is a myth).

33. No one said anything about being forced to do it. Women are the ones being forced to accept less. Christina Hoff Sommers is a raging lunatic that has repeatedly been shown to cherry pick, misrepresent and outright lie to support her arguments. I wouldn't trust anything that woman says about anything. [URL="http://www.vox.com/2014/4/9/5597392/fancy-math-cant-erase-the-gender-pay-gap"]Here is another article which neatly illustrates that the gender gap is real[/URL]. It's also worth noting that pretty much every developed country has statistics which show the exact same thing and yet we are expected to believe that all the governments and statisticians and everybody are wrong but some lunatic right winger in the US managed to disprove it all with one article focusing on one study that may or may not be flawed.

You can disagree, that doesn't change that privilege is real, observable and measurable.

It is illegal, it still happens all the time. Often in ways which are much harder to prove. Women being passed over promotions or employment because of an expectation that they are going to get pregnant is illegal but it is hard to prove it happened because it is [URL="http://www.bustle.com/articles/32858-alleged-ibm-executives-incredibly-sexist-chat-gets-live-tweeted-by-nearby-coder-read"]only rarely that people are stupid enough to admit it, like those IBM execs recently[/URL]. The results are clear though, more women are getting more university qualifications, but more men are being employed and more men are promoted. Fatherhood may not get you anything, it also doesn't cost you your career. Also worth noting that feminists are fighting for PATERNITY leave so men can get it and look after kids if they want. The idea that fathers don't need leave when their kids are born is in fact deeply misogynist because it assumes women will be doing all the child rearing. What you experience with trying to get leave to look after kids is another feminists want to stop. as I said, expecting women to look after kids and men to work is misogynist and harms both men and women.

5. Good. Sadly a lot of men are clueless about that sort of thing because they are never taught to actually focus on other people.

10. Yup. One of my friends got married and took her husbands last name because she never liked hers, another because she just had no attachment to her own because it is really common. It's about choice and that is what feminism fights for, the right for women to choose and not to have things imposed.

12. It's one of those things that can be negotiated too. Rubbish at cooking? Just can't seem to get the hang of it? Do the laundry and cleaning instead, if at a aprt volunteer to help clean up, whatever. Again it just comes down to not blindly following cultural norms which see women doing more of the domestic work than they should.

15. Fair enough.

18. Good

28. Well yes within couples people shouldn't be policing each others wardrobes either,but when a woman doesn't she isn't backed up by a whole societies worth of pressure.

32. See it all the time, really offputting. also that women are taught to take up as little space as possible as I said. Elbows in, knees together, back straight. We teach women to shrink and men to expand into all available space. Also funny that because I am big and tend to sprawl and take up space this deeply offends men even when I don't invade their personal space. Seeing a woman taking up space and not shrinking seems wrong to them.

35. Fair enough, not overly fond of isms either, but feminism is really just the believe that women are equal and should have the same rights, freedoms and responsibilities men enjoy so it isn't a bad ism.

My pleasure,hope I don't sound too cranky its early and I'm still sleepy.

TW: severe abuse] Anita Posey was a dedicated caseworker for children at the Dept. of Social Services for 20 years. Her boyfriend was a drug addict and de aler, and an extremely violent man. She had black eyes, a fractured nose, broken tooth and lips, three cracked ribs, and other injuries over the years. She shot him in defense of her baby, after he had thrown the baby at the wall. The court wrongfully convicted and sentenced her, stating that she had time to think between the time her boyfriend threw the baby and th e time she picked up the gun “60 to 90 seconds” and unjustly called it premeditated.

because i’m just ****ing sick and tired of everybody wanting to “talk” about and “complicate” yet another ****ing murdering man’s life and history—I decided to highlight the women of Michigan who are currently in prison/serving life sentences for murdering abusive male partners and/or committing crimes under threat of abuse by male partners.

Anita Posey struck me as particularly important to highlight because her case points to exactly how ****ed up the situation is for mothers in particular—do you know HOW many ****ing women I’ve spotlighted/done stories on through the ****ing YEARS who have been imprisoned for 20 yrs, some times life, because they *didn’t* “defend” their children? Do you know how many women are sitting in prison right now for the crime of being abused by their partner and not being able to stop their partner from abusing their children?

and yet, a woman kills the man who has beat her WHILE he’s hurting her children—and she STILL winds up in prison.

THESE WOMEN are the people who we DESPERATLY need to understand. along with the cultural mentality in the US that expects women to not only stop men from raping them and beating them, but also expects them to stop men from abusing the kids—while ALL OF SOCIETY STANDS BY AND WATCHES.

The worst part of all of this is that this sonova***** put her in a Catch-22.
HE THREW AN INFANT AT A WALL.

So, she has two options:
1. Stop Him
2. Don’t Stop Him

He’s a violent abuser with a history of erratic and violent behaviour and a past history of getting physical. He’s in a murderous rage, as evidenced by the fact that he THREW AN INFANT AT A WALL.
If she attacks, and is rebuffed, he will—without doubt—kill her.
Ergo, she must succeed in incapacitating him on the first try, which she accomplished.

The reward? 20 years in prison.

Option one nets her a murder charge.

Option two, however, nets her a negligence and accessory to murder charge—-precisely because she failed to act and thus is deemed to be ‘complicit’.

No matter what action she took, she was ****ed.

[URL="http://feministbatwoman.tumblr.com/post/96115687332/tw-severe-abuse-anita-posey-was-a-dedicated"]Source.[/URL]. This happens in the UK too. Abused women kill the husband to protect themselves or their children and are more harshly sentenced than if the man killed them. Also have women who fail to stop abusive husbands being charged as an accessory. Leaving an abusive relationship is actually incredibly dangerous, chance of being killed skyrockets. Women in these situations are in a lose-lose situation and the justice system doesn't give a ****.

[eldargal]

Some of the 'criticisms' of Anita Sarkeesian misrepresenting video games are hilarious:

He's also lying, I've played Absolution and you don't kill her, you find her corpse. The whole thing was pretty disturbing.

[scadugenga]

The problem with delayed response violence in the law is sticky. It also varies by state and venue, which doesn't necessarily seem fair. (to whit, look at some of the "defensive" shootings that result in 20 year mandatory sentences in Florida.)

Wait--a 20 year caseworker for the dept. of social services--was dating a drug addict and dealer? And a violent one at that? That's making my head hurt... I would question pre-meditation at a 60-90 second gap. She was very much in the middle of an ongoing situation. But courts all over the country do find fault with someone who leaves a room, gets a weapon and then returns. On the surface, that seems odd. In this case, however, the baby was (presumably) still in the same room as the dirtbag she shot. So I wouldn't think premeditation would be appropriate.

[Kirsten]

Anita Sarkeesian has had to leave her house with her family following horrific death threats against her family.

[url]http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/08/27/feminist-video-game-critic-forced-to-leave-her-home-after-online-rape-and-death-threats/[/url]

what is incredible is that if you look at the comments, people are claiming she made the threats herself from a fake account, and claim she is lying about the whole thing.

[scadugenga]

Anita Sarkeesian has had to leave her house with her family following horrific death threats against her family.

[url]http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/08/27/feminist-video-game-critic-forced-to-leave-her-home-after-online-rape-and-death-threats/[/url]

what is incredible is that if you look at the comments, people are claiming she made the threats herself from a fake account, and claim she is lying about the whole thing.

Sweet jesus. It's a shame that people can get away with things like this. One of the reasons I loathe twitter.

[eldargal]

The problem with delayed response violence in the law is sticky. It also varies by state and venue, which doesn't necessarily seem fair. (to whit, look at some of the "defensive" shootings that result in 20 year mandatory sentences in Florida.)

Wait--a 20 year caseworker for the dept. of social services--was dating a drug addict and dealer? And a violent one at that? That's making my head hurt... I would question pre-meditation at a 60-90 second gap. She was very much in the middle of an ongoing situation. But courts all over the country do find fault with someone who leaves a room, gets a weapon and then returns. On the surface, that seems odd. In this case, however, the baby was (presumably) still in the same room as the dirtbag she shot. So I wouldn't think premeditation would be appropriate.

Don't forget in he US the chance of being killed increased by something like 75% when the woman leaves, so otherwise sensible seeming women being in long term relationships with scumbags happen for a reason. By the time they find out about their boyfriend/husbands habits it can be too late.

[CoffeeGrunt]

[URL]http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=o8eF80PJv54[/URL]

Thought this review of Princess Diaries 2 was really interesting, especially the parts likening it to male pandering movies that don't demand anything of their viewers.

[eldargal]

Princess Diaries was better, don't remember much about 2 but it wasn't offensive:

Patriarchy training starts young: