A Crash Course in Feminism Mk. II (or, why everyone should be a feminist)

[Thor Summer]

I think the most important thing to remember in all of this, is that we as a people should be pro-human and pro-freedom. What I've never felt is that men and women should be equal for the sake of it. We are not equal. That's not harsh, it's true. The main issue I see with the world is that people expect to be judged on whether they have a minority status (can be subjective, not touching that with a barge pole), and not if they can actually do the job. There are are certain things that guys complain they get passed over for compared to women and vice versa, I always find myself thinking that if we could just focus on who does the job best as a person not a sex/colour/whatever else, we'd be a lot better off.

That said, I really fear for women fighting on the front line of any military situation. Again, if they can actually do the job and it not screw with unit cohesion etc. then there should theoretically be no problems, but it's just the danger of what can happen if they're captured by an enemy just doesn't bear thinking about. It's bad enough guys with guys, but war is a place where many humans become something a little worse.

This thread, and it's originator has done well to mostly avoid the 'militant feminist hates men and shouts loudly at anything disagreeing with the view that women are downtrodden', and remains an interesting read. For both of those things, thank you.

[Mr Mystery]

Woman joins front line military unit.

Men get the arse with that/get distracted/unable to control libido.

And that's the woman's fault how?

How many soldiers are actually taken prisoner in modern wars?

[Lord Asterion]

Women being captured on the front lines being raped means they shouldn't be allowed to go on the front lines if they want? Men who get captured can get raped or tortured by their captors, why does the fact that its a woman make this worse?

[Mr Mystery]

See, I find the whole military argument slightly...odd.

Take LGBT in the army. Does it really matter which way your pendulum swings there? Surely what matters is your ability as a soldier? Don't Ask, Don't Tell was a compromise, and whilst not satisfactory overall, not a terrible compromise, apart from compulsory sacking if someone outed you. Which was a ridiculous state of affairs.

Same with women. Average front line soldier doesn't really do the whole commando raid thing, on account Special Forces do that. Can given person aim and maintain their weapons? Is their level of fitness suitable to extended manouevres? If yes, off you go.

[Psychosplodge]

Its not necessarily worse, but it's probably more likely?

Aren't women essentially allowed to do everything except frontline infantry and submarines in the UK armed forces?

[Lord Asterion]

Its not necessarily worse, but it's probably more likely?

Aren't women essentially allowed to do everything except frontline infantry and submarines in the UK armed forces?

If a woman knows that going in and still wants to serve on the front lines, whats the problem?

[Gotthammer]

Well also given most conflicts of the last decade or so have been very asymmetrical women are seeing combat regardless, and have been captured as well.

And while seeing people as just people is an admirable goal doing it now can be troublesome as if you ignore a person's difference you can also ignore things that only they would go through.

[Wildeybeast]

But not a reason to not allow them to be soldiers. In the ancient world, it was not uncommon for soldiers to bugger their defeated foes. Not because they were gay, just because it humiliated them. Like dogs humping I guess, a dominance thing. Any way, point is, no one went around arguing men shouldn't be soldiers on account of they may get raped if they get get captured. You accept it as one of the perils of war. And I would expect the statistics show that a woman is more likely to be raped by a man from her own side than the enemy,

[Psychosplodge]

If a woman knows that going in and still wants to serve on the front lines, whats the problem?

As its life and death I'd leave that one to the experts, I'm assuming theres a reason, but considering I don't think they let women down the pit either there must still be supposed reasons?

Well also given most conflicts of the last decade or so have been very asymmetrical women are seeing combat regardless, and have been captured as well.

That's true, was it the US that said they de facto had women on the frontline even if policy was against it?
Was it daemonette666 that was a female soldier? maybe if you still read pop in and offer your opinion?

[Thor Summer]

See, this topic is always a prickly one... It's never the woman's fault for making unit cohesion hard, if that's even true, but seeing as your average fighting force is largely made up of males, and the front line role largely (note that word, I never said all! ) lends itself to a male physique (to generalize, Males tend to be physically stronger, etc. Again, there are exceptions!) Surely the bias is an understandable one. The tricky side of it is my belief that, yes, if God gave you the gifts to be able to do a job just as well, if not better than, the rest then why not?

I suppose if someone wants to go regardless of risk into a bad situation, and they can pull their weight, why not?

Viewing people as humans and on their merits is hard, but is something I strive to do. For instance, I am a professional musician. I know what is required of a musician, and I know what is needed to put together the band/project I work in. I judge all of the musicians on merit alone, but what makes the 'best choices'? Sadly for women in our industry, a band gets lots more work if there is a female member, more importantly, she doesn't have to be good, just average, but she does have to be good looking. It's a really sad state of affairs, but the public and agents expect it... so sometimes I leave the more talented girl behind for the more attractive one, because that is the 'merit' judged most beneficial for the project.

Interestingly, anyone looking to see an incredibly talented bassist and singer and all round role model for musicianship regardless if gender, who also happens to be rather gorgeous, check out Esperanza Spalding.