A Crash Course in Feminism Mk. II (or, why everyone should be a feminist)

[Mud Duck]

Coffee Grunt, The concept art is half the way there. Take a look into the ONLY WAR rp that Fantasy Flight puts out. There's a lot of art in those books that could be transferred in to believable models.

[The_Gonk]

This is pretty interesting:




One of the main issues, I think, with our current political state is the refusal of parties to compromise or even consider the nuances of the other's position.

Worse than that though is any attempt to supress free speech. All parties should be allowed the opportunity to express ideas and debate as without that we can't learn from and about each other and our ideas can't evolve and grow!

[Path Walker]

"Yes, he brought up AdMech, your point is still false."

I've noticed you seem to wave away any information you don't like, without actually thinking it over. Ad Mech are stitched-together mechanical monstrosities, twisted fusions of the human and machine forms. How is gender even relevant anymore in such a creature? How can you introduce gender when the faction is so bent on filleting away every unnecessary piece of flesh that they can?

I quite liked Lt Mira, and she was a very well executed character in the game. Strong, able to command and tactically capable, she was still just a human next to the Astartes, though. Of course, being a cis white male I'm not allowed an opinion on such matters as has been previously established, but for what little my opinion is worth, she's a great character.

Adding extra torsos adds extra models to the unit, unless they limit the number of legs available. Given that you'd effectively have twice the parts, driving up the price for the end buyer on a horde unit that doesn't need additional detail. You can buy these replacement parts from 3rd parties if you want them, there's little to be gained from forcing them into the kits.

Urgh, getting all pissy and shouting about how you're being oppressed for being a white male?

See, its easy to just attack the person and not have a reasoned discussion, thats what you're doing to EG every single time. Accusing her of hand waving your idiotic little arguments putting down the very idea that women aren't happy with the models as they are and are stupid for not thinking in the same way you do.

[YorkNecromancer]

Of course, being a cis white male I'm not allowed an opinion on such matters

Grow up.

This sort of absolute nonsense will get you short shrift here. As has been pointed out, you're resorting to character attacks on EG and others, not to mention the very waving away of opinions you dislike which you accuse others of.

To be VERY CLEAR with you: we are not disagreeing with you because you are white. We are not disagreeing with you because you are cis. We are not disagreeing with you because you are male.

We are disagreeing with you because your arguments are weak - as I and many, many others have outlined, and because your initial entry point to this thread was 'I don't care, but I don't like arguments, so can we not?'

You don't like discussions which can flare into passionate argument? THIS IS NOT THE THREAD FOR YOU.
You want to post ideas anyway? BE PREPARED TO HAVE YOUR OPINIONS RUTHLESSLY INTERROGATED.
Don't have the fire in you for that? THIS IS NOT THE THREAD FOR YOU. This thread is not an echo chamber for like-minded thinkers; you want that, go to literally any other website.
You don't care? DON'T POST. Because if you don't care and you do post? You've got nothing to say, and you're saying it too loud.

I do care. Passionately. So do many, many others here. Your comments here have felt a little like you walked in, metaphorically gave everyone a little pat on the head and told us 'calm down dears'. While that may not have been your intent, that's very much how it felt. The fact you're now saying self-indulgent nonsense like the quote above?

You are making things worse.

[CoffeeGrunt]

Please. Enlighten me. How does a female line of Orks, Tyranids, Necrons or Ad Mech make any sense given the lack of sexual dimorphism within these factions due to their reproductive processes or lack thereof.

I'm fine with level-headed discussions, where people discuss points with an open mind and offer point and counterpoint to the subjects raised. People said GW don't represent females well, and they don't. I say that half the factions don't even have genders, while the other half have third-party model availability to amend that.

However, thanks for all zoning in one the MCW clause and not even talking against the paragraphs around it, I would have welcomed a good fluff reason or fanon interpretation that would reverse my points.

I support equality, but unless you're sending your girls into battle without helmets, how is anyone going to tell from above a tabletop that some of your Guard are female? In order to be able to see an inch-high models' features from a few feet above the table, they tend to be exaggerated, hence the oversized weapons and divergent designs for each faction. I'd like to approach this from a logical design perspective primarily, because if GW did release a bunch of helmeted girls, it'd be called lazy and half-assed. If they released a whole new box of female Guardswomen, they'd have no guarantee of recouping the expenditure as it may be an even more niche product than Sisters, who really deserve a plastic update first anyway. If they expanded the options in the base Guard box, it'd drive up the price on a horde unit to accommodate the extra parts, much as Scions, Pathfinders et al rose in price. Standard Infantry models have been mostly untouched for a while now because GW know it's the big new toys that get the sales.

I'm planning on personally sourcing some parts recommended by YorkNecromancer, and using them to make a selection of Femme Guard to add variety to my squads. I'm just not understanding the argument from a financial and logistical perspective for getting GW to reinvent the wheel in a more limited fashion than what others are already available. My point isn't that it should never exist, more that it already does in better variety and quality than GW can offer, and will achieve better, more customisable results rather than only using parts supplied in the box.

I dunno, I know female gamers that play Templars, Marines and Necrons, so I might ask them what they think of it. My "Cis White Male" comment was acknowledging a flaw making it difficult to see the ineffable shades of grey I might stumble open in this argument. I'm hardly being oppressed and never aimed to imply that in the first place.

[Mr Mystery]

Random find on the Guardian's site.

[url]http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jul/11/tom-junod-praise-older-women-mansplaining[/url]

[Kirsten]

Please. Enlighten me. How does a female line of Orks, Tyranids, Necrons or Ad Mech make any sense given the lack of sexual dimorphism within these factions due to their reproductive processes or lack thereof.

well why does it make any sense for them to be male?

[CoffeeGrunt]

well why does it make any sense for them to be male?

They're not...they don't have genders. Necrons are androgynous skeletons absolutely devoid of any individuality, and thus have no gender. Ad Mech have very little human flesh left, especially the recent Forge World releases. Tyranids are cloned and are arguably an all-female species anyway, I don't think even the named beasts have assigned genders.

Orks I'll concede are made out to be male, but mostly to parody chavvy football hooligan culture, rather than any deliberate gendering. They also reproduce asexually like the Nids, and thus simply do not conform to our perceptions of gender in the slightest.

[Mr Mystery]

Necrons do have personalities. At least, the ones that matter.

All the special characters are notably male. Female Lord or Overlord wouldn't have gone amiss, even if the actual model remained androgynous.

[Kirsten]

This is pretty interesting:




One of the main issues, I think, with our current political state is the refusal of parties to compromise or even consider the nuances of the other's position.

Worse than that though is any attempt to supress free speech. All parties should be allowed the opportunity to express ideas and debate as without that we can't learn from and about each other and our ideas can't evolve and grow!

it is a shame that these talks are not being allowed to take place, but those two are talking absolute twaddle. Anne Coulter should always be allowed to speak because her sheer overwhelming stupidity will undermine herself at every turn.