A Crash Course in Feminism Mk. II (or, why everyone should be a feminist)

[YorkNecromancer]

So...you just made a Necron Lady by having a custom Lord model and gave it a female name?

Yup. Why is this such a mindblowing idea? As a metal skeleton, what 'female signifiers' should she have? A f***ing bow in her hair?

Here's the thing: Necrons are alien skeletons! They don't scream 'male!' to me, they scream 'undead'. It wouldn't make sense to give her boobs or any of the usual 'female signifiers'! I mean, I toyed with that whole bow idea, then remember she has no hair, only a polished steel skull, so I just thought 'Nah.' I mean, might maybe have gone for some kind of feminine porcelain mask or other, but to me, that suggests vanity, and the character's a fighter and soldier, so why would she give two tugs about her appearance?

Where is it written that every female character in 40K must include the word 'beautiful' somewhere in the description?

Here's the thing: including women? It's as simple as INCLUDING WOMEN. The only armies whose models are directly affected are the explicitly human ones. It's why I didn't remodel my Cadian torso pieces: real female soldiers look a lot like men. Most often, the only time you can tell the difference is facially.



Hard to spot that feminine physique under all the webbing, yes?

I like my models to make sense, and I can't stand it (CAN'T STAND IT) when someone blobs two balls of milliput on a figure and goes 'I AM DOING FEMALE MODELS' in a Very Serious Voice, as though what they have done is anything but ridiculous.

Of course, that could be my preference for 'realism' (which, yes, 40K, so very much a relative term) over 'fantasy' - it comes across in my colour palette choices too. I hardly ever use bright colours, even when I'm doing Eldar. The brightest my colours get are sort of dirty whites and faded greys.

We can even turn Sue into Joe, which is accompanied by infusions of testosterone. So basically you would turn a female recruit into a male. She can keep her genitalia (which you would not see in her armor anyways), most probably lose her boobs (they are not needed she is a warrior, no mother), get a very deep voice, grow hair in funny places and probably lose hair on the head.
So yes. We can do this. But you still have no female space marine but a forced transgender marine who might or might not keep her identity as female but is hardly recogniseable as one.

You have a very limited view of gender.

What people's bodies are and how they feel about them? Sometimes they don't match. I don't know if I'd say she was forced trans. More like a woman with male signifiers. If she's a het woman, her body is irrelevant to her. She gets more body hair? So what? This may be a surprise to you but SO DO ALL WOMEN. Some even need to shave their faces. In fact, most women past the menopause will need to deal with facial hair that begins to grow due to the change in hormones. They don't suddenly turn trans, or turn into men. Their features don't become male. They don't turn anything.

The fact you seem to think all women can be identified by the same rote signifiers says less about women and more about you.

[url]http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012/09/26/balpreet-kaur-dignified-sikh-woman-deflects-bullying-taunts-facial-hair-pictures_n_1915674.html[/url]
[url]http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/02/17/sikh-woman-harnaam-kaur-embraces-facial-hair-taunts-suicidal-video-pictures_n_4801741.html[/url]

In terms of models what does this mean? Head swaps. That's all we need. Just head swaps.

(And yes, I do think about these things and they do matter to me, because sci-fi is supposed to be about Big Ideas. The fact you so dismissively say 'Meh, a woman on hormones is just a man' is oversimplified and insulting. The world is broad and vast - why is your imagination smaller than it?)

[eldargal]

Head swaps is the minimum really, I do think there is an argument for female torsos and arms as womens proportions are different to mens even in body armour. But yes headswaps would do it.

[Mr Mystery]

Behold, the difference a lot of clothing and a helmet make.

Arvel Crynyd



And Sila Kott



Both A-Wing pilots during the Battle of Endor. Both voiced by men. Except, Sila Kott was female (proven by the plethora of extras on the Bluray set). Her voice was overdubbed, because reasons (really don't know why!)

So similar, people often confuse the two of them, and think it's a single pilot.

[eldargal]

Still pisses me off that they included like three female pilots in the original trilogy, killed them all off and then ****ing didn't include them in the films. I mean it has it all. a terrible gender ratio to begin with, killing all the women off presumably to show how war is srs biznis and manpain and then editing them out completely.><

[Psychosplodge]

Is she the one that became the basis for Tycho Celchu? The rogue squadron A wing pilot at Endor that survived the deathstar run

[eldargal]

No sure. One or two of them are in the background still:

Following on from previous post it is speculated it was cut because they felt killing off three women characters (out of like six or seven with dialogue altogether would have been offensive and they were right. instead we have some canon background females which you can hardly see. But better than just introducing them and killing them off, the disposable women trope needs to ****ing die.

[Charon]

You have a very limited view of gender.

What people's bodies are and how they feel about them? Sometimes they don't match. I don't know if I'd say she was forced trans. More like a woman with male signifiers. If she's a het woman, her body is irrelevant to her. She gets more body hair? So what? This may be a surprise to you but SO DO ALL WOMEN. Some even need to shave their faces. In fact, most women past the menopause will need to deal with facial hair that begins to grow due to the change in hormones. They don't suddenly turn trans, or turn into men. Their features don't become male. They don't turn anything.

The fact you seem to think all women can be identified by the same rote signifiers says less about women and more about you.

[url]http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012/09/26/balpreet-kaur-dignified-sikh-woman-deflects-bullying-taunts-facial-hair-pictures_n_1915674.html[/url]
[url]http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/02/17/sikh-woman-harnaam-kaur-embraces-facial-hair-taunts-suicidal-video-pictures_n_4801741.html[/url]

In terms of models what does this mean? Head swaps. That's all we need. Just head swaps.

(And yes, I do think about these things and they do matter to me, because sci-fi is supposed to be about Big Ideas. The fact you so dismissively say 'Meh, a woman on hormones is just a man' is oversimplified and insulting. The world is broad and vast - why is your imagination smaller than it?)

I think you got me completely wrong in your struggle to keep your argument alive.

Headswaps for Guard? Go on! I really would like to see female guard, female cultists, female inquisitors,....

But even with the pictures you posted (and im speaking strictly space marines here)... clad them into a servo armor and you get what kind of a plastic model? You can go on and say this is not Ragnar Blackmane, this is Sigrid Frostaxe after the successful change into a Space Wolve. These are plastic soliders. They have no personality. Technically they dont even have a gender. If you optically cant distinct a male model from a female model its up to you to chose.
Im not saying anything like 'Meh, a woman on hormones is just a man'. Im saying a woman on heavy testosterone treatment will LOOK like a man. So the model would look like a man. Exactly the same way you assume that necron metal skeleton to be female. And in the case of necrons we dont even know how many sexes they did have when they were still mortal. We just assume they are all like us. But they are alien. Not like us at all.
An intelligent alien snail would probably not even know what we are talking about and why it is "important" how our genitals are distributed.
Yes the scifi world is broad and vast - so why reduce your imagination by assuming "everything has to be like us"

[Mr Mystery]

[url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28300618[/url]

Women Bishops closer to a reality. Church now marginally less bigoted.

[YorkNecromancer]

You can go on and say this is not Ragnar Blackmane, this is Sigrid Frostaxe after the successful change into a Space Wolve. These are plastic soliders. They have no personality. Technically they dont even have a gender. If you optically cant distinct a male model from a female model its up to you to chose... m saying a woman on heavy testosterone treatment will LOOK like a man. So the model would look like a man.

I would agree that physically they would be almost identical. Facially? Still female. So, we still need female heads, because it's not fair on female gamers who want to play. Let's be fair, most people get into 40K when they're 10 to 12. Gender difference is a huge thing then; the worst thing a boy can be accused of is being a girl, or gay (actually, that one stays all the way to adult life, but that's a whole other kettle of ugly socialisation). The worst thing a girl can be is 'manly'.

But everyone likes games. I get so many girls wander into Games Club, curious, interested, wanting to play. I literally got told last week: "Sir, this looks awesome." by a group of young women.

Then they saw the total lack of female models and were like "Oh, it's a boys thing. We aren't allowed to like this."

Now, it takes a hell of a lot of willpower to say "Screw you, I'm going to like what I like", a huge amount of willpower to defy gender norms (imagine how it would feel to be a boy wearing a dress to school by choice, and you might begin to see the pressure these girls are under from themselves and their peers to conform. Yes, that's an extreme example, but it's undeniably similar).

What female heads do is give permission for girls to enjoy the hobby. It's not a boys' thing; it's something anyone can enjoy. So much of life is feeling we can't do stuff because we're not allowed for whatever reason, especially if you're the shy and nerdy type (which, let's be fair, is 90% of Warhammer's market).

The point of all this is to make it okay for those nervous, shy girls who look into the room where everyone's having fun with little toy soldiers. They look at the table, see themselves, and go. "This. This is for me."

Just like all of us did.

[Kirsten]

[url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28300618[/url]

Women Bishops closer to a reality. Church now marginally less bigoted.

the problem for the church is essentially, deny female bishops and contribute to their own obsolescence all the faster, or modify their views, thus undermining them, in an attempt to stay relevant.

Radio 2 today was full of men and women stating it shouldn't be allowed, some incredibly aggressively, saying that god makes Adam before Eve, that women must not have authority over men, all the while claiming they are not misogynists. then there were one or two people who came on and said of course it states that in the bible, it was written by men.