A Crash Course in Feminism Mk. II (or, why everyone should be a feminist)

[Kirsten]

You mean because he was all kinds a dreamy?

posting this again

[spagunk]

In one of the comics Black Widow picked up Mjolnir and became Lady Thor quite recently, might be that?

Nah, we're talking like 80's or 90's Thor.

[Morgrim]

By that logic, if having a hot man is meant to attract female readers then having a hot woman Thor should appeal to the menfolk!

[eldargal]

[URL="http://io9.com/slut-shaming-and-concern-trolling-in-geek-culture-511721655"]Slut Shaming and Concern Trolling in Geek Culture[/URL]

Honey, your skirt is a little short.”

To be fair, it was a little short. It was short intentionally. I was dressed in a science officer costume from Star Trek: The Original Series. Not the sleek little work-appropriate but still sexy jewel tone tunics from the new movie, but the flared, strangely-constructed, unapologetically teal and chartreuse polyester cheerleader dresses that fit perfectly with the (now) retrofuturistic vibe of the original show. It’s a screen accurate dress. And by “screen accurate” I mean “short”. And at the beginning of the day, I just assumed the lady who commented was pointing out that I needed to tug down the dress a bit. That was the first comment. After the next 30 or so, I had had enough.

I was at Balticon, a great science fiction convention that leans more to the literary side than the ones that are normally in my wheelhouse. This was my second year going to this con, and my second year costuming there. Last year I brought several costumes, but only wore one: a fairly conservative X-Men costume that didn’t involve skintight spandex, cleavage or even any bare skin below my neck. I did that because I knew the moment I walked in that it wasn’t the kind of con I wanted to wear my Ms Marvel costume. I wore that outfit for all of Saturday, became extremely annoyed with the response I was getting and then dressed in normal clothes on Sunday.

The best quote though:

The history of geekdom is not a history of men, it’s a history of invisible women.

Read the whole thing it is great.

[Psychosplodge]

By that logic, if having a hot man is meant to attract female readers then having a hot woman Thor should appeal to the menfolk!

You would assume as much

[Forge Master]

I read it too and agreed with her points, then I read this reply to her piece and it had me thinking.

Hmm. I guess this is supposed to be striking a blow for feminism. You bust out some 3rd wave feminist terms here to make your case. However, I'm about to drop another layer of feminism on you.

And it is this:

Most of the geek costumes for women originated directly from the male gaze. For example, that tiny skirt was designed by, and for the enjoyment of, men. That it's now an iconic symbol of geekdom changes that not one bit. When you are wearing it, you are a walking billboard stating "this is how the mens want a geek girl to look" flashing over your head.

And here you are, ardently defending your right to comply.

That's the real rub here. You want to be free to wear things that were designed by men specifically to showcase women as sex objects, yet not be treated like a sex object. That's what I want you to be aware of. That's what I want you to understand when you're getting all feministy. If that's the tack you want to take, at least talk about how you're trying to own it or something. Taking it back from the patriarchy or whatevs. Because it's one hell of a mixed message you are sending, and the dudes who are receiving it aren't bastions of social awareness, generally.

So, wear that skirt. You look great. But understand that the issue is at least one layer deeper than you've made it out to be.

[Psychosplodge]

Thats victim blaming.

The cosplayer should be able to wear what she wants without having to put up with the bad attitude from other grown adults.
Its not her fault they don't seem able to control themselves. And it shouldn't be her problem.

[eldargal]

'splodge is right. Yes the uniform was designed by men in keeping with womens fashions that were largely based around showing off women for men. BUT it wasn't sexualised, she didn't look like a slut and that sort of behaviour is completely unacceptable even if she did look like a slut. Choosing to wear a costume even if it is very revealing because you like the character or what it represents or even if you just like the look of it is no kind of justification for bad behaviour in others. That poster was spouting some real ****ty second wave feminist bull**** there, anti-feminine, anti-sex, exclusionary bull****.

Don't even get me started on the application in this specific case. I mean there is no ****ing way a miniskirt and stockings like that can be construed as 'sex object', I mean really:

If that says sex object to someone it says a lot about them that is not flattering.

[Forge Master]

Thats victim blaming.

The cosplayer should be able to wear what she wants without having to put up with the bad attitude from other grown adults.
Its not her fault they don't seem able to control themselves. And it shouldn't be her problem.

No I don't think it is. Sure I agree any women or man should feel comfortable wearing what they like, especially in the setting she were in. But what I do find interesting is the point made about the cloths being made for women to be objectified in. I think she has a point.
I stress I don't think it's right that someone should be hassled for what they are wearing. I don't think it's victim blaming at all, and I have the feeling the reply was written by an active feminist too, one who's maybe a more strident in her ideology too.

As with any ideology there are varied views and some more extreme than others.

[CoffeeGrunt]

That's the question I have about girls wearing racy clothing. Is it feminist because it's a girl wearing what she wants and showing off her body as she please, or is it anti-feminist because it's a girl wearing what men want her to wear? I mean, sure, short skirts are a pretty feminine article of clothing, but I can't help but feel they're made more to please guys than girls.

On that note, I was watching Highschool of the Dead, and I have a fair tolerance for fanservice - I watched Kill la Kill week-on-week. KlK manages to be entertaining around the fanservice, though. It's comical, silly and so over the top that it's instantly enjoyable to me. There's also as much male character fanservice as female, and the lewdness of the outfits is what powers the characters' abilities. (It's a big ol' mickey-take of Magical Girl Anime in that regard.)

However, HsotD is aiming to be a serious, dark and gory storyline centered around, you guessed it, a zombie outbreak and the struggles that come of it. It's interesting then that the intro features so many girls falling into zombie hordes at just the right angel to show an upskirt shot, many more have oversized boobs complete with boing noises - no really - and every breath of wind lifts the skirts of every girl on-screen.

While I got through Kill la Kill fairly well, the constant fanservice made me just drop the show because it overtook and ruined every other aspect of it. It was about the point that a random bath scene rolled up with all the girls that I just dropped it and went over to Angel Beats, which has a badass female leader character, who is also entertainingly and hammily insane.

Not to mention the fact that the girls in HsotD are of, well...dubious age. At least KlK had the international awareness to up the age of the characters from the norm and make them definitely adults. Angel Beats actually has pretty much no fanservice that I remember either.