A Crash Course in Feminism Mk. II (or, why everyone should be a feminist)

[eldargal]

It doesn't matter what his reasons are. Men do not have a right or an entitlement to sex. Sex is what happens when two people come together because they both want it. If one doesn't want it then it is rape. If he couldn't make it enticing enough to get his wife interested that is his failure, not hers. The moment you start keeping a ****ing diary of your wife saying no you've entered the realm of ****ing creepy, misogynist entitlement for which there is no excuse.

[Charon]

Where do you read that?
He provided the reasons given to him. No matter what the answer was. I read of ONE instance where a 20 minute time frame was mentioned... doesnt qualify as a "quickie"

It doesn't matter what his reasons are. Men do not have a right or an entitlement to sex. Sex is what happens when two people come together because they both want it. If one doesn't want it then it is rape. If he couldn't make it enticing enough to get his wife interested that is his failure, not hers. The moment you start keeping a ****ing diary of your wife saying no you've entered the realm of ****ing creepy, misogynist entitlement for which there is no excuse.

Ok.
We agree about the first half.
"If he could not make it enticing enough it is his fault" THAT is utter bull****. That turndown can have a million "hidden" reasons. If she is cheating on him he can try to entice her all day and she will turn him down. Clearly his fualt cause we all know that only horrible persons can get cheated.
The moment you start that diary CAN be creepy, misogynist entitlement. Also it CAN be pure desperation.
If she does not want him at all she should be fair and break up. Or talk about the "issues".
I really dont know what my wife would do to me if I turn her down every day for 2 months (probably even way longer as Im sure that the course of action is not "oh he turned me down once, I make a list now)

[CoffeeGrunt]

Maybe if he spent all the effort maintaining a spreadsheet on trying to trim up, talk to her, ask what's bothering her, etc, etc then maybe they would've got somewhere?

[eldargal]

Exactly. There are any number of reasons why a woman might not want sex. also look at the excuses given:

She was tired. Fair enough
She was sick. We are supposed to look at both sides of the story when by his own admission she says she was sick? Whatkind of **** pressures his sick wife into sex?
She was drunk. If she was drunk she can't give consent.
She felt sore from teh last time. This could actually be because of a medical condition.

Instead of ****ing investigating and trying to find out any possible underlying causes (him being ****ing **** at lovemaking for example, or his wife having a medical condition which made it uncomfortable) he has just been a ****ing arsehole.

[Wolfshade]

It doesn't matter what his reasons are. Men do not have a right or an entitlement to sex. Sex is what happens when two people come together because they both want it. If one doesn't want it then it is rape. If he couldn't make it enticing enough to get his wife interested that is his failure, not hers. The moment you start keeping a ****ing diary of your wife saying no you've entered the realm of ****ing creepy, misogynist entitlement for which there is no excuse.

Correct me if I am wrong, I don't think I said that he was entitled to it. Nor, did I say his reasons where in anyway justifiable. but if you are looking for a divorce and cite inreconcilable differences, which a lack of sex can be, you need to evidence it, now certainly a better way would be just to record when it happened, rather than when it didn't but we are not talking about the best way to record data here.

[eldargal]

His actions show he felt entitled to it. You don't write up a spreadsheet of every time your wife says no to sex if you don't think you are being cheated out of something. also it isn't even that they weren't having sex, it was that they weren't having enough sex.

[Wolfshade]

Ok so we are agreed then.

[eldargal]

Yup. If he was looking for a divorce and compiling evidence that would be one thing (though we could discuss how disturbingly patriarchal it is to be able to file for divorce because your partner isn't giving you enough sex) but he just used it to try and shame her while she was going away on holiday. Said he wouldn't miss her because she wasn't having sex with him, because obvously that is the only reason you would miss your wife.

[Forge Master]

Ok so we are agreed then.

Nope I'm not, this could very well be ongoing far longer than the spreadsheet suggests. Sure his route the addressing the problem isn't great, but it's completely ignorant of us on here to make a judgement on the basis of that one post. We don't know any of the underlying issues of the marriage but as usual we start the blame game. As it's the feminist thread there's only one way it's going to go.

I'm sure it's all made up bollocks anyway. If it's not he should either think about the reasons why 9 out of 10 times she's not up for it. Even taking into account her excuses. Hell she could be having an affair.

[Wolfshade]

Yup. If he was looking for a divorce and compiling evidence that would be one thing (though we could discuss how disturbingly patriarchal it is to be able to file for divorce because your partner isn't giving you enough sex) but he just used it to try and shame her while she was going away on holiday. Said he wouldn't miss her because she wasn't having sex with him, because obvously that is the only reason you would miss your wife.

Interestingly, I've known of two cases where the lack of sex was used for a divorce, the latter one was done by a female. There were other things I hasten to add in both cases it wasn't like they were like "oh yeah we get on great, just not enough sex so we are splitting up" but ayway.