A Crash Course in Feminism Mk. II (or, why everyone should be a feminist)

[Mr Mystery]

Quite so.

I really do despise the Daily Mail. Never mind me not agreeing with their politics, they just seem incredibly hateful and irresponsible in their reporting style.

[Al Shut]

Lady Sybil not humiliated by sex tape would make an odd headline. Too obvious that nothing report worthy is going on.

[Mr Mystery]

Lady Sybil not humiliated by sex tape would make an odd headline. Too obvious that nothing report worthy is going on.

Except the potential break up of the UK.

IS about to be tackled by USA and 11 Arab Nations working together.

Hell 'Arnold Blodgett hits thumb with hammer' is a more important headline than the non-story they're fixating on.

And I note, they've given her age because reasons.

Though to be fair, being Das Daily Mail, it's just possible they put people's ages in the paper just to lift their reporting accruacy up out the mire a bit.

And there's only one Lady Sybil - Lady Sybil Ramkin. Everyone knows that!

[CoffeeGrunt]

Ask his victim.

She's the one whose opinion matters.

The bottom line for me is that Mike Tyson had a horrible life growing up and it turned him into something horrible. The quote a character talking about a serial killer in 'Red Dragon': "As a child, my heart goes out to him. As an adult, he's irredeemable." Let let's not forget, this is a man who, in an interview years after the assault, when asked if he assaulted her, replied with a laugh "Nah, I raped the b****" so my sympathy for him is limited.

Now, you say he's got his act together, but I would dispute that. If you are a convicted criminal, and someone asks you a question about your criminal behaviour - behaviour which almost everyone agrees is utterly beyond the pale - the 'correct' response is to admit said behaviour, deal with the question politely, and move on. He didn't. He refused to own his previous criminal behaviour, and got violently angry.

That is not the action of a man who has his act together. If it was, he would realise that people have a right to both question him about his behaviour, and a right to hate him for it. What he did was hateful.

Getting violently angry? That's not a man with 'his act together'. That's a man with serious anger management issues who is a threat to others.

In response to your question, I would ask this: if it had been your mother he had held down, or your daughter, or your wife... or you. If it had been you he forced himself on, you who woke up the next morning bleeding in a private place, and you were then roundly discussed on television... If you were the one who had to live with that, you were the one who had to be brave and overcome what happened. Live with the injuries, physical and mental...

Would you care if people were still harassing the man who did that to you? I suppose you might feel sorry for his suffering, this much richer, much more successful man who served jail time but is still famous and, in many places, beloved. I suppose you might feel sorry that when someone mentioned the way he hurt you, that your rapist got angry with them. If you had truly forgiven and forgotten.

Me? I don't think I would. I think I'd want him harassed until the end of days.

Of course, I have a lot of hate in me, and I have a problem with holding grudges.

True, true. I was just opening the floor to debate. It seems there are some crimes you simply can't redeem yourself from.

I'm not one to hold grudges, but then I've never had anyone do anything like that to me. Would I be bitter about it decades on? Honestly, I'd hope not, because I'd rather not relive and continue thinking about something that horrific, and would hope I'd move on past it. However, I simply don't know, and am not surprised that it's something that stays with people for life. That fact saddens me, but it's not the victim's fault.

@Kirsten

That feminist list is pretty cool. Quite liked that Arya vs Sansa line. I'd note that a few of them have mirror-images for men, but most are very valid points.

Though what is it with SJ blogs and twitchy gifs. I mean really, why mount thought-provoking text on twitchy gifs?

The presumably toddler's t-shirt about marrying a prince is pretty weird. I mean really? Also sex education is indeed hilariously bad. And awkward. Oh God is it awkward.

[Al Shut]

Except the potential break up of the UK.

IS about to be tackled by USA and 11 Arab Nations working together.

Hell 'Arnold Blodgett hits thumb with hammer' is a more important headline than the non-story they're fixating on.

I meant to say nothing noteworthy in this matter, not nothing noteworthy in the world.

[Mr Mystery]

Arp.

Wasn't having a pop at you, but Das Mail

[Kirsten]

Oscar Pistorius described as 'negligent' by the judge. because firing four shots through a door at an unseen person and killing them is really just a case of negligence... how the judge could believe his version of events is beyond me. an intruder in his en suite bathroom? no chance. anybody who has been in a long term relationship will tell you that you instantly know whether or not your partner is in the bed with you.

[Wolfshade]

Unfortunately, the state didn't really prove beyond reasonable doubt that he must know that Reeva was behind the door and that shooting blindly into a room couldn't be premediated murder as he wasn't *technically* shooting at her.

I must admit that it was strange and some of it seemed contradictory, firing to defend yourself and stop someone coming out the bathroom doesn't seem to add up to not attempting to kill the person.

So now, we can protect ourselves by walking around with a door attached to our guns...

[Kirsten]

yes it all seems to be very wrapped up in semantics, the Judge said it wasn't murder, and the prosecutors had 'failed to prove he intended to kill'. he fired four shots in to a tiny bathroom, there was never going to be any outcome other than death.

there are various issues here for me really, a) whether or not he knew it was her, he intended to kill. and b) even if you accept his utterly ludicrous story, he ought to face an incredibly serious sentence for being so stupid as to fire blindly and repeatedly.

BBC breakdown of murder levels:

"Common-law murder - acquitted Unlawfully intended to kill in the heat of the moment but without "malice aforethought". Either: Shot door intending to kill, or knew someone might be killed and still fired gun"

the last sentence is the important bit, clearly he knew somebody might be killed. how he could possibly get away with that is astonishing. the judge is either an idiot or corrupt.

[YorkNecromancer]

True, true. I was just opening the floor to debate. It seems there are some crimes you simply can't redeem yourself from.

Agreed. Some debates are just not worth having. Tyson is scum, largely because he chooses to remain as such.

I'm not one to hold grudges, but then I've never had anyone do anything like that to me. Would I be bitter about it decades on? Honestly, I'd hope not, because I'd rather not relive and continue thinking about something that horrific, and would hope I'd move on past it. However, I simply don't know, and am not surprised that it's something that stays with people for life. That fact saddens me, but it's not the victim's fault

It is possible to move past it - I know from talking to others who have. I have never been a victim of rape, but many, many (read: about 60% of my female friends) have and I have a lot of anger about that. A lot. And yeah, I've had counselling for it, which has helped. Counselling is awesome.

I think the thing which makes it possible to move past is when one's attacker is brought to justice, or when sufficient decades and hours of therapy have passed. I think the thing is though: rape victims are entitled to their hate, their anger and their grief, because we live in a society that does not protect them, a society which actively disbelieves them, a society which actively protects their rapist, a society which says they are responsible for what was done to them, and a society that ultimately denies them even a voice, let alone anything resembling justice.

F*** that.

F*** a society which enables these men, who are obviously men we know, who we live with and laugh with and love with, because you know what? 1 in 5 women aren't being raped by anonymous sexually predatory monsters who hide in bushes. Rapists aren't some 'Other'; rapists are men we know. We all know them. They just weren't ever brought to justice because when the game is this stacked against the victims, how can they? These survivors aren't pounced upon by some fairy tale monster. They're being raped by that life-and-soul-of-the-party guy who makes those hilarious off-colour jokes. By their fathers; the same ones who cook at barbeques and tell the funniest stories. By their cousins, the ones who spout the trash-talk on CoD and talk about women in the worst ways imaginable. By that guy who just wants to get laid and they were both a little drunk and she didn't say no and yeah she cried afterwards but she's still my friend so I didn't do anything wrong, right?

Right?

F*** that.

F*** any man who doesn't understand that not a person who doesn't say 'no' is not the same as actually saying 'yes'.
F*** every boyfriend who wasn't sure if his partner wanted it or not, but went ahead and did it anyway.
F*** these people who are so ignorant they don't even know they're rapists and don't try to educate themselves about it.
F*** their enablers.
F*** everyone who ever told a rape joke where the victim was the punchline.
F*** everyone who ever laughed at a rape joke where the victim was the punchline.
F*** anyone who ever told a survivor "You should have just... <anything>"
F*** anyone who ever told a survivor "You were drunk."
F*** anyone who ever told a survivor "What did you expect?" or "You were asking for it." or "You know what he's like." or any of the other hundred thousand million horrible things.

The only thing anyone should ever tell a rape survivor is "I'm so sorry. I'm just going to sit here and be here for you. Whatever you need, that's what I will provide. Including acceptance, belief that what you are saying is true, love and compassion, and my ear. There is only one question for you, and it is this: how may I serve?"

I include a pair of links which I feel are relevant.

[url]http://projectunbreakable.tumblr.com/[/url]
[url]http://www.theguardian.com/society/2011/jul/17/the-rape-of-men?INTCMP=ILCNETTXT3487[/url]