A Crash Course in Feminism Mk. II (or, why everyone should be a feminist)

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

As per usual, you seem to be shutting down the ones with reasonable opinions.

First of all, having an opinion that war is bad is not invalidating anyones experiences. It would be if you had an opinion that people in a warzone experienced it in a certain way and refused to listen to people who HAD experienced life in a warzone and said you were wrong. Secondly, you confuse having views and expressing views. You can have views about something you haven't experienced all you want, but that doesn't mean your views are worth the same as someone who has experienced what you have a view on. Thirdly, no one is saying men don't experience cruelty, we are saying you don't experience systemic, cultural and institutional discrimination based on your gender. Because you don't. Fourth, being a vegetarian is a choice, being a woman is not. Finally, a comparison to animal rights is pointless because animals cannot actually communicate their own experiences

Being a vegetarian, I find animal cruelty to be a big issue. Don't just dismiss animal rights. I'm not dismissing feminism here.

And what you're saying in your second point is quite literally "you can have an opinion MALE, just don't say a single word of it to anyone".
Look, I sympathise for female rights, but you make it REALLY hard for people like me.

[eldargal]

As per usual some of the 'reasonable ones' seem more interested in defending their right to an opinion than combating sexism and misogyny in our society.

I'm not dismissing animal rights, I'm saying it isn't comparable to feminism.

Yes. Because feminism is about rectifying the immense problems facing women in our society, which results in daily trauma, violence and even death. The hurt feels of men who feel their opinions aren't getting enough attention don't matter at all. Women don't need sympathy for the notion that we should have equali rights to men, they need men to stop perpetuating a patriarchy which literally kills women while erasing our contributions to society, denying our agency and independence and reducing is to objects to be consumed by men for their pleasure.

[Deadlift]

Simple put, the prevalent mood in this thread currently does a grand job of alienating those that would be allies.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

You need to stop ignoring an industry that literally kills animals. How would you like to be trapped in a cage too small and force fed sh*t until you died? Never seeing the light of day, never knowing family or compassion?
How would you like to be owned by a human and constantly mistreated? How would you like to be left in a field somewhere, left to fend for yourself whilst the family that can't keep you drive off?

Animal cruelty is as much an issue as feminism, and f*ck you for demeaning it.

[eldargal]

Simple put, the prevalent mood in this thread currently does a grand job of alienating those that would be allies.

Maybe those would be allies should focus more on the actual oppression they are supposed to be allied against and less about having their egos stroked?

You need to stop ignoring an industry that literally kills animals. How would you like to be trapped in a cage too small and force fed sh*t until you died? Never seeing the light of day, never knowing family or compassion?
How would you like to be owned by a human and constantly mistreated? How would you like to be left in a field somewhere, left to fend for yourself whilst the family that can't keep you drive off?

Animal cruelty is as much an issue as feminism, and f*ck you for demeaning it.

Ok so the systemic oppression of half the human species is comparable to treating animals nicely, great to see the value you put on women.

[Psychosplodge]

The lack of women in STEM fields is a problem for secondary level education though.
When we took our options at 13/14 ish girls were pushed towards home economics/textiles/graphic design. There were two electronics classes, 50 males no females. And this was done by form tutors. I knew a couple of girls that mentioned wishing they'd done electronics.
I know the technology department staff did support female students when they managed to get them, I'm pretty sure one won young engineer of the year or similar when I was still at school.

At sixth form maths and science were 50/50 or female heavy in our sixth form. I didn't do a technology subject at A level so can't comment.

At uni the engineering course I took had around a hundred males and one female.

Unless secondary school teachers encourage females at the point you choose your GCSEs it will never change.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

No, it's the value I put on rights, don't mix my words. Every fight to get rights is as important as every other fight. I'm not dismissing feminism, I think the fight for equality is important, so don't dismiss my fight for animal rights.

[Deadlift]

Maybe those would be allies should focus more on the actual oppression they are supposed to be allied against and less about having their egos strokes?

I'm pretty sure on the ego front, I'm pretty low down on that pecking order

[eldargal]

Part of the problem is secondary education. A big part is having a culture which sees science as something men do, scientists in positions of authority who genuinely believe women are inferior in intelligence, misogynist bigots like Richard Dawkins dominating the scientific atheist community, endemic harassment and abuse in STEM fields towards women, women struggling to get grants and funding etc.

No, it's the value I put on rights, don't mix my words. Every fight to get rights is as important as every other fight. I'm not dismissing feminism, I think the fight for equality is important, so don't dismiss my fight for animal rights.

I'm not dismissing it, I'm saying it isn't comparable to feminism because unlike women animals cannot speak and fight for their own rights. You can't invalidate a pigs opinion on its oppression because it has no concept of oppression and no opinion.

When women are literally dying every day because of misogyny having some male who faces no systemic hatred based on his gender tell me the fight to make sure chickens are treated properly in egg farms and such is of equal importance is ****ing offensive.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

"it isn't comparable to feminism"

So you're dismissing it then.

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Your attitude to other fights offends me personally.

What do you think of climate change and protecting the planet? The literal thing that keeps us alive is being killed every day by pollution.

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What about terrorism and war?
An innocent human being was just decapitated, for seemingly pointless reasons. Oh, no, it's a man, it's fine.