A Crash Course in Feminism Mk. II (or, why everyone should be a feminist)

[daboarder]

Also relevant:

Passive aggressive belittling, classy! Just enough to slide under the expected "**** males" right?

[eldargal]

To go on from what Gott says, equality is the AIM, feminism is the TOOL. We cannot treat people as equal now because they aren't. Men are still vastly, vastly better off than women in our society. Treating them like they are equal now simply entrenches the inequality because it fails to take into account action is needed to remedy systemic discrimination against women.

[eldargal]

[URL="http://www.themarysue.com/25th-anniversary-montreal-massacre/"]It is the 25th anniversary o the Montreal Massacre,[/URL] where white male Marc Lépine walked into the École Polytechnique in Montreal and shot 28 people in the name of fighting feminism. Because men will literally kill women for daring to think of themselves as being equal to men.

These are not just attacks on feminists or feminism. They are attacks on women. Every *******ed day women are targeted for having the audacity to be a woman and are subjected to some violence as punishment. [...] Feminism and its outrage aren’t meant to be pretty. They aren’t meant to be restrained, cleansed, or censored. And they are not meant to be forgotten.

Also remember that just recently Anita Sarkeesian, feminist video game critic, had to cancel a lecture because someone threatened to commit a 'Montreal style' massacre at the university if she did so. The threat of violence is another tool used to silence women and feminists, and when that fails real violence will often be employed.

[Gotthammer]

On the Montreal Massacre:

A memorial erected in Vancouver sparked controversy because it was dedicated to "all women murdered by men", which critics say implies all men are potential murderers. As a result, women involved in the project received death threats and the Vancouver Park Board subsequently banned any future memorials that might "antagonize" other groups.

[eldargal]

'which critics say implies all men are potential murderers'

'As a result, women involved in the project received death threats'

[CoffeeGrunt]

I don't really see how saying, "a guy writing a female character, especially a role model icon like Wonder Woman, isn't going to end well," is sexist.

I wouldn't ever expect to do a true and heartfelt rendition of Kunta Kinte and the rest of the African characters in Roots were I asked to write a remake, because despite also being a human being as they are, I have none of the history, ancestry and after-effects an African-American person would have.

Everyone should be equal, but that does not mean everyone is the same. Men and women think differently, have different traits, have different characteristics. It's possible to cross over between each gender, but there's different hormones in your blood, different experiences, expectations and slurs yelled at you in the street. The brain's structure itself is different between each gender, and all these add up to a different mindset men can't really hope to accurately portray, the same as a white person can't hope to accurately portray the story of a Latin-American immigrant breaking through the Mexico border, or an African slave in the Victorian era. I wouldn't expect to be able to write a story about Oda Nobunaga's rise to power, because I don't know the subtleties of Feudal-era Japan, and how his life would be growing up.

Ergo, we should all be equal, but we are not. We won't ever all be equal in every metric, some will be better at one thing, some at another. Some will have one ideology, others the opposite, and each feels assured they are correct.

The point was that this is the first female-led comic book movie since the failure that was Catwoman, (written by 3 men, vilified for the horrible characterisation and dialogue of the mostly-female characters, and used as a reason not to make another female-led movie until now.) Since that flopped hard with three guys writing it, people are asking for a female writer on WW, because they'll add nuance that men simply won't think of. Details we skim over because they don't pertain to us, because we're so sure that's how everyone wants things to be.

Not to mention that more stories from more diverse minds is always a great thing to have.

[Kirsten]

I mean seriously how is the dudes GENDER any reason to judge him, answer that without violating the first post on this thread asking for the SAME GOD DAMNED RIGHTS

The media's portrayal of women is overall sexist. Like, you can't rationally argue against that. And it's overwhelmingly created by men

there you go.

[Kirsten]

little girl lays in to Gaston at Disney World, epic

[url]http://hellogiggles.com/little-girl-calls-gaston-sexist-new-feminist-hero[/url]

[YorkNecromancer]

Daboarder, you're very good at pointing out when men are being treated unfairly. This leads me to suggest that the key issue you have is that you're coming from a flawed core assumption. From what you've said, you take it as read that men and women are equal already; that they already have equal opportunities to achieve and create. That there are no structural or institutional inequalities which exist that might impede either gender from success. Basically, you seem to believe that a meritocracy already exists, where only the best people are selected to do the work. Therefore, the idea that a woman should necessarily be picked to script the Wonder Woman film is obviously unfair! After all, true equality would mean that gender should be irrelevant.

I'm not going to argue that inequality exists; that's up there with arguing the sun exists. It's just an indisputable fact of life: inequality exists. Anyone who thinks otherwise is an idiot or delusional.

However, I will suggest that we look at the number of superhero films released with a female lead. I think you'll agree, it's not many.
I will then suggest we look at the number of superhero films written by a woman. I think you'll agree, it's not many. In both cases, I think you'll agree that men have mostly led superhero films, mostly directed superhero films, and mostly written superhero films. These are films by men, about men. That there have been more superhero films starring a blonde haired, blue-eyed white guy named Chris as the hero than there have with a female lead? That is unfair.

Now, given this utter disparity, I don't think it's unfair to suggest that a female-led film, featuring a character called 'Wonder Woman' be written by a woman. Sure, if there's a talented enough guy out there, he could write it... But as we've established, there's plenty of films out there by talented guys, starring white men named Chris. I think it's pretty reprehensible to be arguing that there's no problem in a man writing 'Wonder Woman' when the situation is so unfair; can we not just give women this one? It's one f***ing film.

I'll be honest: I do think that men and women can both write any character of any gender, assuming they do the research. I've written female characters myself, as well as people of colour, trans characters, gay characters... I've tried it all. But if I was offered the role of writing 'Wonder Woman' ahead of a female writer, I'd view that as kind of immoral. That I was being f***ing selfish. If I'm the very best writer, should I do it? I'd say no, because women writers in Hollywood have few enough chances as it is; they don't need men taking away the sparse female characters who actually have a chance of getting a film with them in the lead made. And in the name of 'let's be equal'? That's just f***ing cruel.

If, IF, out of every 500 films made, 250 were written by men and 200 were written by women? Sure, I'd take the job.
If, out of every 2 superhero films made, 1 had a male lead and 1 had a female lead? Sure, I'd take the job.
But that's not the world we live in. So it's unfair for a man to write 'Wonder Woman'. It's unfair and that's all there is to it.

[Deadlift]

little girl lays in to Gaston at Disney World, epic

[url]http://hellogiggles.com/little-girl-calls-gaston-sexist-new-feminist-hero[/url]

Yep pretty funny, but what if it was a little boy laying into Cruella De Ville if she were saying comical sexist in role things, would that be epic too ? Just wondering.