Eldar Codex: So, What Do You Think Of It?

[40kGamer]

I'm loving the new book if for no other reason then it makes the army interesting again. Definitely not the new power army but that just means I won't have to see 50%+ of the 'fair weather' players at a tournament fielding Eldar.

First build I'm going to test out is Jetbikes and Serpents backed up with Fire Prisms and Nightwings... sorry Crimson Hunter. Actually the first time in 6th I've considered a mech heavy list viable...

[40kGamer]

It's called barrage. Riptides can barrage which is awesome. I can't see you here is a 72" range pie plate at strength 9 ap 2. Eldar have barrage all day in their heavy. I think if they wanted too they can lob 9 large barrage pie plates, lol at horde armies, butyou lose out on better options doing that.

Let's not even talk about guard. I'm not, but you should talk to guard about barrage. If they wanted too they can have the entire army fire barrage.

Quite true... I was thinking of things that ignore area cover not just measure cover from the center of the blast... Cover saves are useful but tend to be overrated. I'm actually glad to see veil of tears back to it's original form for that very reason.

[chicop76]

Quite true... I was thinking of things that ignore area cover not just measure cover from the center of the blast... Cover saves are useful but tend to be overrated. I'm actually glad to see veil of tears back to it's original form for that very reason.

Talk to a squad of noise marines as they blast you away withyour pretend cover save.

[Regnir]

I believe it will just be one wraithknight, it looks like the rule makes it your warlord while still being an HS slot.

Yeah, I saw the screen cap after I had written that. It was really mostly an inside joke with Defenestratus and Lexington, I don't think that would be a very effective army.

[Caitsidhe]

Thiniking about it more I think eldar would do well against chaos marines. Chaos marines realy don't have an antiflyer

You mean besides a STR-7 Vector strike which will tend to rip the Kill-Kite apart? I suppose it all depends on who comes in "after" who. You better have more than one of those Kill-Kites too, because most of the time you are facing multiple Helldrakes. Optimally, if you come in 2nd you can probably kill one and then die to the other(s).

Most CSM players take the Quad-Gun too (I know I do at least) and that tends to blow the Kill-Kite out of the air on arrival, or at the very least force it to Jink. At that point it is unlikely to take a Helldrake down, and the Jink won't work against Vector Strikes. There are other CSM AA options, but most involve volume Twin-Linked fire or allies. I know I make use of both and the Sabre blows the Kill-Kite out of the sky very effectively.

which the 4 strength 8 shot fighter would easily kill the helldrakes.

I agree that the Kill-Kite has a good shot at killing a Helldrake. If all four shots hit, statistically two will glance or penetrate. I don't know if I would go so far as to say it is an easy kill, however, since you really need to glance or penetrate with three unsaved hits to guarantee destruction. I think you have good odds, but it is by no means a sure thing. Good method? Yes. Easy? No.

Starcannons and darkreapers = dead anything else. Only thing I can really see is noise marines, which no one plays. I always wonder why since they can ignore cover and have feel no pain.

Lots of people use Noise Marines (including myself). Most favor Plague Marines, however, for obvious reasons.

I like nurgle mariness, but denying cover is where it's at.

The issue is that CSM players don't need to buy expensive Cult units to deny cover. We have better options for it. At some point denying cover simply becomes overkill and you need more options which are AP-2. It only stands to reason you are going to make the most economic cuts.

One day some noise marnes will be paired up with some skullcannons that would be a guardsman nightmare. Anyway elves should do well since 1 they should be dishing out a lot of marine killing love and second they out number you.

How is this anymore a nightmare than simply hitting them with a Baleflamer or digging a FMC into a blob unit? Dirge casters in support whenever possible of course. Skullcannons would mean Daemon allies and again you are talking about a points problem. Noise Marines are expensive fully kitted out for maximum ignoring of cover. The Skullcannon will be supporting FMCs during an assault not Noise Marines.

Heck you telling me that eldar bikes cost almost the same as a marine with marine stats almost. Not only that they are very manuverable and hard to get into combat. Not only that they have rending shooting attacks. Against chaos marines especailly if you take the 20+ point cost marines I will have more bikes to your marines. Did I say they rend so high toughness that.

Nobody is denying that Eldar bikes are good. I'm just not sure why you think CSM is a great match up given that CSM have the best tools for liquidating bikes. I can only assume there is a very differen't style of battle in your META as opposed to mine. In my area we apply the tactics of Rommel. The German argued that tanks are not for fighting other tanks. They are for butchering infantry. Artillery is for killing tanks. The list goes on and on. In short, a good general doesn't want a fair fight. You stack the deck at the points of impact and strangulation. Someone in my META isn't rushing and toward Eldar to meet them. They are simply waiting for reserves and forcing the Eldar to come toward them. They plan on putting the things which effectively kill Eldar Bikes without a fair chance against the bikes, things which kill infantry without a fair chance against the infantry, and so on down the line. Eldar Bikes are great but against someone who also understands they are great (and has tools to terminate them) you have a problem. It forces you to go on the offensive in the extreme to try and earn their keep before the Reaper arrives, or you have to try and hide them way, way in the back losing most of their value. CSM is a bad matchup for PRECISELY this reason.

Than throw in a warlock and the bikes now have a 2+/3+ cover save with a strength 9 ranges weapon.

I don't much care about the Cover Saves (we all know why). You will need to get medium range to use your guns which means you can get affectedby Dirge Casters fairly easily and then assaulted by a BFM and thus eliminated quick or slow (doesn't really matter), and are by virtue of positions vulnerable to straight up VOLUME of fire. I suspect that since Eldar have not had an option for such great saves before that "some" are somewhat overestimating the power of it. Ask Terminators w/Stormshields how they feel about plain old Bolter fire in volume and you will sober up a bit.

The only thing Chaos really have going for them vs eldar is helldrakes which against the eldar's fighter crash and burn.

Actually we have Helldrakes, Burning Brand, Obliterators, Volume of Fire, particularly nasty FMC combinations with Black Mace, and some great choices as allies. We have more than this too, but these things are the ones found in a lot of the tournament lists. We do have the cover ignoring options of Noise Marines although you will generally only run into NM using Bolters, Doom Sirens, and Blastmasters... leaving the Sonic Blasters at home to save points for other things. There are other crazy combinations like Warp Talons of Tzentch (w/Daemon allies to provdie the Tome) which are just starting to appear. There is nothing like a bizarre unit with 2+ Invulnerable save that moves lightning fast. I'm not sold ont his yet but against Eldar it might be effective in hitting fast-moving units to tie them up and/or kill.

Let's not even go into waveserpents with flamewraiths wiping out whole terminator or marine units quite easily.

Why not? You should go into it but this isn't anymore or less effective against CSM than any other kind of army so it doesn't really bare on the match up.

I see tau and daemons being better than eldar, but I have a hard time seeing chaos space marines or dark eldar being better than elves.

Ok. Let's play? Where are you at?

[Demonus]

Chaos marines realy don't have an antiflyer which the 4 strength 8 shot fighter would easily kill the helldrakes.

You mean aside from vector striking hell drakes, quad guns, flying DP and Oblits with TL plasma/melta guns? Not to mention Havocs with Auto Cannons out the wazoo. Eldar flier is boss against other fliers, but it is a paper tiger dont forget and if it gets shot, chances are you will have to jink and become bs1 to live. Hell Drakes dont jink. They just need 5++.

Personally I think CSM/Eldar would be a good fight. Lots of templates and Sonic Marines to ignore Eldar cover. Lots of ap3/2 for Eldar to ignore Chaos Armor.

[Sainhann]

Actually, High Elves in Fantasy are identical to Eldar in that sense; hit hard, die easily, small numbers. Different game system obviously, but they have made it work before. It just doesn't appeal to most gamers as it is obviously a difficult army to play well.

Thing is High Elves have been mid-low tier for sometime now because of this.

[DarkLink]

Vector Strike alone does more damage to a Crimson Hunter than the Hunter does to a Heldrake. Not impressed.

[Sainhann]

I don't think Eldar are more than "moderately elite. GK is elite, Eldar are less than that. I don't feel particularly outnumbered against most opponents....

That is because most opponents are Marines or other Eldar or other armies that are heavy in the vehicles/flyer department.

Try facing off against a vehicle lite Imperial Guard army because then you will free outnumbered.

[cebalrai]

That is because most opponents are Marines or other Eldar or other armies that are heavy in the vehicles/flyer department.

Try facing off against a vehicle lite Imperial Guard army because then you will free outnumbered.

Yeah but foot-heavy Guard isn't exactly the best benchmark as to what's elite or not. Regardless, that's why I said 'most'.