Come the Apocalypse!

[eldargal]

Anyone else looking at other forums reactions to the Apoc rules have the distinct impression that a lot of people don't know what Apocalypse actually is? I see people talking about things (like titan weapons) being 'overpowered' and I just think 'That's bloody idea'.

Edit: Oh and a few people complaining that the Lord of Skulls has skulls on it. For ****s sake.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

..............................................

No words.

[Defenestratus]

Anyone else looking at other forums reactions to the Apoc rules have the distinct impression that a lot of people don't know what Apocalypse actually is? I see people talking about things (like titan weapons) being 'overpowered' and I just think 'That's bloody idea'.

Edit: Oh and a few people complaining that the Lord of Skulls has skulls on it. For ****s sake.

I think that the problem with Apoc is that in order for it to be fun for all involved, it needs to have "super heavy balance". Meaning that one side has about the same amount of super-heavies/strength D as the other side. It doesn't have to be exact but it has to be "ball park" since Str D makes a mockery of normal 40k units.

The problem that some are seeing now is that Str D is even more unbalanced towards super heavies now. Before a vehicle stood at least a chance of survival against Str D, now it will die no questions asked. Before you could get at least Invulnerable saves against Str D - now you have literally no defense outside of rolling a 1 on the D chart to survival. Gargantuan creatures really took it on the chin while MC's fared much better than they did before (must want to sell more Riptides and Wraithknights).

So here's the issue - people who "casually" play apoc with a bunch of friends are going to have an even harder time if the other side brings along a reaver. Its just not fun to setup a huge table and before anything happens, half of your army is wiped out because of Str D.

My group is actually welcoming these changes somewhat as we always thought that Str D was too weak for our meta.

[eldargal]

Yep, but that is something for players to work out beforehand. You had to have both sides go into it with a willingness to impose some sort of balance on the sides, that hasn't changed. Apocalypse has NEVER been something to rely on GW for balance, that has never been the point. It's about fielding everything you can and seeing what size shovel each side needs to remove casualties with.

[isotope99]

Speaking personally I'm going to play my D weapons as only being Str D under the hole and Str10 on the blast, feels more reasonable.

[Mr Mystery]

Speaking personally I'm going to play my D weapons as only being Str D under the hole and Str10 on the blast, feels more reasonable.

Someone gets Apocalypse! YAY!!!

But also, do remember that despite the lack of a formal army organisation, Apocalypse is a game of consent. An Apocalypse game requires a good bit of forward planning, from arranging a suitable time when your players won't have to drop out at a given hour, to ensuring you have a suitably sized board and general play area.

If your opponent has bought, built and painted a Reaver Titan, it seems a shame to deny it's usage, even though you don't really have anything of that magnitude. So rather than just say 'no' to it's inclusion, discuss how to work it into the narrative. For instance...

Any Titan is a relic of a bygone age, a physical reminder of mankinds lost might. The loss of such an engine is a blow to the Imperium, and the morale of it's supporting troops. Thus, you may wish to agree that if it's destroyed during the game, your opponent cannot achieve more than a draw, as his victory becomes pyrrhic.

Too harsh? Why not have it recently deployed, and not yet fully ready for service? A pre-emptive strike against a high value target, whilst it's attendant tech-priests attempt to rouse it's machine spirit to full wakefulness.....

[magickbk]

in order for it to be fun for all involved, it needs to have "super heavy balance"

I found Planetstrike to be like this as well. We played a few games, and it is stacked to begin with, but I was shredding through my opponents army as it was landing on the board. I'm not sure more than 1 enemy unit even made it to one of my defense points before being wiped out the following turn. My opponents didn't have any fun, and that made it not fun for me either. It is more easily fixed in Apoc, though, just agree to only take the same number of super-heavy formations.

[leighjt]

Our club plays a lot of very big Apoc games, usually Xenos vs Imperial. The Xenos out 'superheavy' the Imperial by a LOT but since the FW HP=SP balance last year we've felt that the superheavies are now made of tin foil.
Case in point, before that update we would typically have 4 Phantom Titans on the table (amongst many many other titans) and they would run riot and be virtually unscathed at the end of the game... the last few that we've played, most of them have died due to glancing.

I like the mechanic of the variable strength for the mega-blast, seems more realistic... however, i don't agree that infantry should get away with nothing happening to them on a 1... it should be 1 wound regardless... it's a D weapon. Are they seriously trying to make out that an infantry man could survive a Vortex Hit (now that vortex is just a D weapon)?? (i know it's supposed to be a 'freak occurrence' but all the same i don't buy it.)

[Neelam]

Does anyone know if the Reaver Titan has been changed much? It's the only unit I'm really interested in.

[Mr Mystery]

Does anyone know if the Reaver Titan has been changed much? It's the only unit I'm really interested in.

Well, it's now called a 'Susan' Titan instead of a Reaver?