Illic fun

[Kyban]

I think Illic can deploy in cc, I didn't find anything that prevented it when I checked earlier. The only restriction is that he can't move to within 1" but deployment isn't moving... Has anyone found anything to prevent this?

[Alqualonde]

Sorry mate this is a notoriously soft rules set written in English, not the hard and fast rules that govern mathematics. Go *&%$ wave somewhere else.

for example, the fact that infiltrate is one of the IC transferable rules gives far more insight into its intended application than a hiccup in the deployment rules.

+1

[zenBen]

An Independent Character can begin the game already with a unit,
either by being deployed in unit coherency with it or, if the unit is in
reserve, by informing your opponent of which unit it has joined.

In the 'no' camp who argue that Infiltrate cannot be granted by an IC, the main foundation of the argument rests on interpreting this rule to mean a player cannot deploy the non-Infiltrate unit with the Infiltrate IC already attached. The important part is the first two clauses of the sentence, separated by a comma and preceding the word 'or'.
But the hermeneutics of the sentence do not allow such an easy interpretation. Within the first two clauses, the act of 'being deployed in unit coherency' may refer to one of two states occurring before the comma: beginning the game, or being with (joining) a unit.
In the first reading, 'being deployed in unit coherency' permits the unit with joined IC to be deployed; in the second reading, 'being deployed in unit coherency' describes how to get the unit and IC to be joined. I suppose the reading you choose depends on whether you consider the joining of the unit and IC to be a state or a process.

So sadly, the rule allows either interpretation from the two sides debating this.

[eris]

So sadly, the rule allows either interpretation from the two sides debating this.

Which kind of leaves us with using 'logical conclusion' from other rules.

The opening line of Infiltrate is.. "Units that contain at least one model with this special rule.."
Is there any such unit we're aware of in which only 1 model has infiltrate? Or can this wording only possibly refer to an IC joining a unit without infiltrate?

[G00dySmiley]

i've been reading this debate on multiple forums from dakka dakka , here, darkcity, and bolter/chainsword seems the evidence points to yes you can in fac tinfiltrate in with Illic, until the FAQ it anyway either direction... still up for debate is if the usr infiltrate is used of Illic's special infiltrate though

[Warpspider89]

i've been reading this debate on multiple forums from dakka dakka , here, darkcity, and bolter/chainsword seems the evidence points to yes you can in fac tinfiltrate in with Illic, until the FAQ it anyway either direction... still up for debate is if the usr infiltrate is used of Illic's special infiltrate though

I've been finding the opposite actually... I just hope they FAQ it and get it over with. I want to infiltrate some D-Cannons with Illic and abuse his split fire rule!

[Kirsten]

no reason to assume infiltrate cannot be given to a squad.
Infiltrate: 'Units that contain at least one model with this special rule(etc.)'
Independent Character: 'an independent character can begin the game already with a unit' 'While an independent character is part of a unit, he counts as part of the unit for all rules purposes'
It is not unheard of, Shrike for example can infiltrate with any unit he is joined to as clearly stated in his entry, it is not implausible to think other characters can do it. Shrike's rule is worded:
'Shrike (and models in his squad) benefit from the infiltrate special rule' if characters joined units the way you suggest, then it would prevent him from actually joining a unit to infiltrate, but that is clearly what he does.

[Power Klawz]

Judging by the obvious intent of the rules you can give infiltrate to units with an infiltrating IC. There's no hard and fast order of operations stated in deployment, its all very fuzzy. Assuming that its diced up into these little unwritten phases doesn't make any sense. You deploy the unit as infiltrators at the same time, otherwise the wording on the infiltrate special rule makes absolutely no sense.

However I don't think its intended for illic to be able to bestow his special infiltration rule to others, as its not stated in his specific special rule that the reduced range restrictions are transferable, as such I'd assume that he can infiltrate normally with any unit like any infiltrating IC or he can go solo and infiltrate his special way, one or the other.

Could really use a FAQ though since intent is so subjective.

[Kirsten]

I haven't read the book but it was explained to me that he can pretty much deploy anywhere he wants. I would say in this instance he shouldn't have a unit with him if deployed up close and personal, because some of the eldar shooting units deployed in your face turn one would be pretty horrendous to deal with

[thecactusman17]

An Independent Character can begin the game already with a unit,either by being deployed in unit coherency with it or, if the unit is in
reserve) by informing your opponent of which unit it has joined.

Nothing here says you can't deploy a model and its unit as part of the Infiltration so long as the models are in unit coherency. All deployment happens simultaneously aside from infiltrate. There is nothing that says that infiltration is not a perfectly normal part of deployment. It would be an illegal deployment to deploy the units without infiltrate after normal deployment, but as soon as they all hit the table together in unit coherency it becomes 100% legitimate because at the time they are deployed, they have the infiltrate special rule. And THAT is the most important part regardless of whether or not they have the rule specifically in their profile.

Just remember, it only says that models with the infiltrate special rule may deploy after other deployments. It doesn't state that they must have the infiltrate at all times, just during the infiltration stage of deployment.