On second thought this seemed more appropriate under background:Astartes Sexuality

[The Last Lamenter]

Unless suggesting corruption from Slanaash, the 40k authors’ complete lack of discussion of sexuality in reference to the Astartes has become a topic of conjecture, controversy, and, of course, much humor within the community. We either tend to impose sexuality by projecting our own 21st century ideas of what sexuality is upon Astartes, or we join with the authors in simply not dealing with it by making highly obscure references to the infertile nature of marines and how it is erased through hypnotherapy, and careful hormone regulation, but these views are too narrow. They are too human, and it is, in fact, a new form of sexuality that heightens the idea that the Astartes, while not alien, are not human at all, and have their own forms of reproduction and sexual identity.

In Ender’s Game, 1985, Orson Scott Card creates a foundation that is the starting point for the discussion of Astartes sexuality when he writes of the Formics, “Ender could see in his mind the slug-like males clinging to the walls of a dark tunnel, and the large adults carrying the infant queen to the mating room; each male in turn penetrated the larval queen, shuddered in ecstasy, and died, dropping to the tunnel floor and shriveling. Then the new queen was laid before the old” (319). This behavior has precedence in insect biology. And it is common to somehow link death with the act of reproduction or rebirth, for example, the monomythic cycle places death right before rebirth, Salmon must spawn or die, in medieval literature “to die” metaphorically meant to ******, and in science fiction, Vulcans must mate every seven years or die, the only alternative being to participate in ritualistic combat. From this idea, the Astartes crafts his sexual identity being linked to combat and death, but takes it much deeper than the Vulcan counterpart, which only mentions it two or three times in the entire Star Trek series.

The Astartes sexual identity is well-rounded and fulfills life’s desire to breed while being indicative of his identity. The Astartes must have a form of sexuality to know themselves. As Michael Foucault stated in 1977, “The Western world… has always asked ‘To know who you are, know what your sexuality is.’ Sex has always been the forum where both the future of our species and our 'truth' as human subjects are decided” The writers of Astartes must answer this question to come to their own “truth,” but they have already dealt with this issue, the entire sum of the Astartes’ sexuality is contained within the progenoid gland, both biologically and symbolically.

The progenoid gland, seperates the Astartes even more from humanity by replacing his testicles, the all-inclusive source of his identity as a sexual being and a man. The testicles are relegated to mere hormone production, once the initiate rises to a battle brother and undergoes the required surgeries. They no longer carry his seed as an Astartes. This role is fulfilled by the gene seed. (Even if the testicles remain as human, semen-producing organs, as some still claim, they do not truly reproduce, as in another Astartes, they would only produce humans, or, in the case of Chaos, some awful spawn)

The Astartes tradition takes the medieval notion of death and ****** quite literally. Although the general consenus is that an Astartes can have his seed removed at five and ten years respectively, the latter mature gland is traditionally harvested by an Apothecary in battle. Therefore, in death, the Astartes’ sexuality is manifest. By dying in battle, he takes part in a sexual act and fulfills both a male and female role if we must have human analogies. He is cut open and the seed removed, he gives birth violently, but he fertilizes the seed internally beforehand. His seed is then implanted into another, penetrated, thus completing the male act in death.

Reproduction is one of the most powerful motivating forces in the world. According to Freudian interpretation it is the most powerful motivating force. The Astartes are bred for war and relish the act because it holds the potential for death, which is so intimately connected to their sexuality. Their death is their reproduction, by which they will pass on their genetic identity, borrowed from the Primarch. The Emperor crafted the Astartes to focus and connect every urge into the act of war, even their sexuality, there it’s a very real possibility that the Astartes anticipate and associate the act of war with a certain level of pleasure, for it holds the potential for their form of sex.

Astartes are not asexual, in fact their sexuality is more profound, violent, and artistic than any human form of the act. They are not insect drones, destined only to shudder and die, but are made for war and war only with all other aspects of life including comraderie and sex being not secondary too, but rather complementary of their sole purpose.

[Nabterayl]

Reposted.

Suggestion: empty lines between paragraphs.

Responses:

The Astartes tradition takes the medieval notion of death and ****** quite literally. Although the general consenus is that an Astartes can have his seed removed at five and ten years respectively, the latter mature gland is traditionally harvested by an Apothecary in battle. Therefore, in death, the Astartes’ sexuality is manifest. By dying in battle, he takes part in a sexual act and fulfills both a male and female role if we must have human analogies. He is cut open and the seed removed, he gives birth violently, but he fertilizes the seed internally beforehand. His seed is then implanted into another, penetrated, thus completing the male act in death.

This seems like a very Astartes view to me. I don't disagree that they themselves might see it this way. On the other hand, must we? An Astartes' gametes will not produce another Astartes, but neither will his geneseed. The Astartes reproduction process - as even the chapters themselves see it - is not a purely genetic act. There are critical dietic and surgical components even to the purely biological half of the Astartes reproduction ritual. Simply implanting a homo sapiens with a chapter's geneseed does not produce a space marine of that chapter, even in body. Then too, there are social and psychological components to the reproduction ritual - the selection and removal of a homo sapiens of the desired age and temperament, the hypnoconditioning and psychosurgery that is part of the extended implantation ritual.

I would suggest that it is better to view Astartes reproduction as communal - it doesn't just take a village to raise a space marine; it takes a village to make one in the first place. I think geneseed harvesting is better viewed as a brother's contribution to the chapter community - a sexual one, if one is willing to grant sexual its academic meaning, but not a birth, and not a complete act. For that matter, I'd suggest that space marines themselves see very few acts as completed except by the community - the reification of community, after all, is what makes space marine operational patterns possible to begin with.

for it holds the potential for their form of sex.

I think this is making sex too cerebral a motivation. If a space marine looks forward to battle, with its possibility of death and contribution of geneseed, I think it would be better to analogize that anticipation to the anticipation any soldier might experience of protecting one's family and legacy. That is a real pleasure, but we know from psychological studies that it is almost never in a soldier's mind during or on the eve of battle. It is also a very different pleasure from the pleasure one derives from the anticipation of sex. Unless the psychological part of the creation of a space marine changes this (which I suppose it could, though nobody has ever suggested it does).

[droozy]

Well remember that the vast majority of astartes are going thru the process that makes them into space marines at a very young are. Sexuality is something like 90% mental. That mental part we are not born with, we learn as human sexuality is arguably the most important aspect of all human culture. Astartes are robbed of that as they (with rare exception) are plucked before they are old enough to develop these ideas thru a cultural template. The central role that sexuality plays in the minds of morals is replaced with violence and war. The physiological changes an astartes undergoes would be dwarfed by that change in priorities. I would argue that astartes at removed psychologically from the game of love. They have no interest in it as it is not a part of their culture.

[Nurglitch]

In Horus Rising the poet Karkasy comments that Astartes are emotionally stunted. Likewise in the Night Lords series, the slaves occasionally get creeped out by how the giant killing machines have the emotionally maturity of children.

[Cactus]

I get the impression you're about to write some fanfic... Not to mention the fact that due to his own ranting/raving/bat****crazy bias, Card is not an author that you should borrow any ideas about sexuality from.

Honestly, I've never thought about space marines getting their rocks off. I don't think it's relevant for my little plastic dolls to move around the table and pew-pew-pew each other to death.

[Cap'nSmurfs]

I don't think I ever expected to see Foucault and Freud in a discussion about Space Marines, so bravo for that. But, uh, I think you're overthinking it.

[Nurglitch]

Speaking of science fiction authors, it might be something to review Frank Herbert's God-Emperor of Dune where the titular character has created the Royal Society of Fish-Speakers, an all-female army dedicated personally to Himself. The narrator has quite a lot to say about the sublimation of sexual drives into violence. I think the book is probably one of the sources used in the original Rogue Trader, what with the trope of an Emperor worshiped as a god and dying for Mankind.

[chromedog]

In Horus Rising the poet Karkasy comments that Astartes are emotionally stunted. Likewise in the Night Lords series, the slaves occasionally get creeped out by how the giant killing machines have the emotionally maturity of children.

Well, this explains why soooo many teenage boys are attracted to space marines like butterflies to candle flames, then.

Emotionally stunted
Emotional maturity of children

Like attracts like and all that.

[Katharon]

Yeah, this entire spiel has a lot of preconceptions and rather disjointed conclusions. Doesn't really make me care any more about the subject or care to dive into it any further. I think the closest most people have gotten to the subject would be to know if Ragnar Blackmane ever did it with that Navigator chick he had to guard or if Loken ever acted upon his obvious desires for Mersadie Oliton.

I think it is just a non-issue and a subject that most writers don't take much time for because it is a non-issue. You don't need to have sex to create another Space Marine and the progenoid glands is a biological device that initiates the physical changes to turn a human into an Astartes. Hardly anything sexual about that, or the method of removal of said gene seed. Also, while some might make cracking jokes about "gene seed," then you need to remember that a seed is simply something that is meant to grow into some larger and stronger, a sprout into a tree, etc. Nothing mythical or dodgy about it.

Long story short, it's a non-issue and doesn't have much (if any) controversy.

[Bob821]

[QUOTE= Honestly, I've never thought about space marines getting their rocks off. I don't think it's relevant for my little plastic dolls to move around the table and pew-pew-pew each other to death. [/QUOTE]

While I agree with this statement we are all going to have different interpretations on how in-depth we wish to look are hobby. Good luck to you lamentor but don't spend to long thinking about Space Marine reproduction or you may find in a position of not being able to find anyone who wants to ‘reproduce’ with you