Howling Banshees - A Conspiracy?

[davel]

I wonder if the intention was to make the scorpions the aspect choice for assulting in to cover.

Last codex the got option to make them better at this, this codex they are standard rules for scorpions plus the also gain stealth(which the could get with th Phoenix)

I wonder also about the ap 3 power weapon. My first reaction was being annoyed. But on reflection with blade storm producing ap 2 hits. Are the banshee intended to take out meq troop choices?

Dave l

[eldargal]

If they wanted Scorpions to be the aspect for assaulting into cover they needed to give Banshees some kind of gimmick to make up for the disadvantage of lacking grenades.

[pauljc]

I'm all for Banshees not lobbing grenades about. Messy, unpredictable grenades aren't very 'Eldarish' in my opinion, anyway.

But, I think the core of the problem with Banshees at the moment, is that their rules don't live up to their fluff. In all the fluff and other media, the common image is of vengeful, screaming Eldar *****es slipping and striding and jumping through various terrain, to fall upon a shaken - or even terrified - foe. In the rules, currently, they just sort of run a bit faster, then jump right into a squad of bayonets.

Anyhoo, they are still viable, especially when in range of Warlock buffs. I have had average success with them so far. About as much as in the previous Codex. In fact, at this moment, I'm concocting an idea to have a large Banshee squad (with perhaps a Banshee-themed Autarch) in a Serpent, combined with perhaps Warlocks, Guardians, and/or Wraithguard, to form a threat behind enemy lines, and to split attention from the rest of my Ulthwe force. The Eldar certainly have more speed to do that.

[eldargal]

Warlocks can't join Banshee squads though so to keep them in range of warlock buffs, assuming you roll useful ones, you need to keep one or two squads of other troops nearby just to give the Banshees a shot at being vaguely effective. There is synergy and then there is designing your entire list to make an otherwise useless unit work.

I had considerable success using Banshees under the previous codex too, even when it was cool to call them sub-par. But now I see no compelling reason to take them at all and that makes me very sad.

[pauljc]

Yeah I know Warlocks can't. But I've got a feeling that Warlocks in their own right can be a dangerous unit with even average rolls on the Battle Runes table.

The basic idea is to run a kusarigama-style attack. Load up, say, three Serpents with Warlocks, Banshees, and Guardians or Wraithguard, and throw it into my enemy's backfield. Combining the Serpent's ability to throw out it's shield, or turn after firing, with an immediate Bladestorm threat, Warlocks with a decent load of dual-purpose powers, and a squad of Banshees dropping in behind the enemy's cover.. Plus, the rest of my army will be throwing out pew-pew, Vibro or D (heh.. Vibro-D.. that's durty), the final aimed result is that you snare and real in from one end, and slash 'em to pieces with the other end.

[eldargal]

See, I think you would be better off putting the points the Banshees would take into more Warlocks.

[pauljc]

Oh most likely, but sucky rules never deterred me from fielding units successfully before.

But I do entirely agree that Banshees have totally lost their gimmick, or mojo.

I don't give a toss about competitive play or whatever, but a unit needs to have some flavour. And Banshees don't, aside from being PMS elf chicks with swords.

[eldargal]

Yup, I don't care about what the tournament scene declares to be competitive either. But a unit needs to be able to do something. Banshees don't. It's a case of IF the unit isn't in cover IF I can get them in a position to assault without being shot at IF Overwatch doesn't kill too many IF I get warlocks nearby and IF I take a Farseer who gets Doom I might be able to use them effectively. I was happy running them with a Farseer before as a hard hitting, dangerous unit but now it's just pointless.


I recommend anyone who actually would like to use Banshees write to [email][email protected][/email] and asking that plasma grenades be Errata'd into the Banshee profile. In fact even if you don't care writing to GW to try and encourage them to use Errata to rebalance units more would be a good thing regardless.

[pauljc]

Yeah, I feel ya. I downgraded my initial enthusiasm quite a bit after I'd tried out the new Codex a few times.

Honestly, all they really need is a dash of seasoning, a gimmick, some sort of mojo.

[eldargal]

Yep:

-Banshee Masks ignores defensive terrain bonuses & Acrobatic lets them count all vehicles as assault vehicles would be enough. Then the possible but unreliable synergy with psykers works without them relying on it or being OP if everything goes well.

or

Banshee Mask -5 I to minimum of 0 (overriding BRB) and gives them a 4+/5+ save against Overwatch fire.

That's withot examining the systemic problems with Banshees that have gone unaddressed. It would make them work though.