For those debating 4 Rune Priests with JOWW

[Ymir]

I figured out how Mr. Kelly was able to field Njal and a Rune Priest with JOWW. Page 64 of the codex says "Special Characters" are the exception to these. Thus you could field Njal and a RP with JOWW, but not 4 RPs with JOWW. Page 81 is as clear as air on no 2 can have either the same saga, powers, or wargear.

[Dingareth]

Wow, thank you for clearing that up for us! Except, that when we ACTUALLY read the sentence, you know, using our good grammar skills, we see:

Blah blah blah... nor may they bear the same psychic powers or wargear combination.

Looks good so they can have the same wargear combination, nor may they have the same psychic powers in combination. Oh! Look at that. Despite your incredible powers of deduction in pointing out that special caveat about special characters and how it applies to a battle report that has absolutely no bearing on the rules, it appears that you can actually take 4 Rune Priests, all with Jaws of the World Wolf (although I have no idea why you would think that this is a good idea) as long as they have both a different combination of psychic powers and wargear, and as long as they do no bear the same Saga.

Next time, try reading although, as apparent by your other thread on this same topic, it appears that you're well on your way to learning that skill. Baby steps though...

[dagonis]

"Blah blah blah... nor may they bear the same psychic powers or wargear combination."

If it meant psychic power combinations it would read:

nor may they bear the same psychic power or wargear combination

they don't say

nor may they bear the same psychic powers or wargears combination

and it would not be proper to say

nor may they bear the same psychic powers combination

it would read

nor may they bear the same psychic power combination

That s is a fairly important modifier as it changes the meaning of the sentence. Combination carries an implicit plurality that negates the requirement of s to denote multiples if it is acting upon the noun (in this case psychic powers). In this case psychic powers is left plural, thus unacted upon by the word combination. "Saga", "psychic powers", and "wargear combination" are all independent concepts. As such, when looking at the rule just dealing with psychic powers the rule would read "To represent this, no two characters may bear the same psychic powers"

Rule from the SW dex
To represent this, no two characters may bear the same saga, nor may they bear the same psychic powers or wargear combination. Space Wolves are far too Individual and proud for such unimaginative tactics!

[PhoenixFlame]

I figured out how Mr. Kelly was able to field Njal and a Rune Priest with JOWW. Page 64 of the codex says "Special Characters" are the exception to these. Thus you could field Njal and a RP with JOWW, but not 4 RPs with JOWW. Page 81 is as clear as air on no 2 can have either the same saga, powers, or wargear.

@ YmirThanks for the effort, tho as you can see the debate continues. And while I'm interested in the debate on an abstract level (yes I'm crazy I actually entertain myself trying to pin down specific rulings even in 40k, but don't worry I don't rules lawyer in the middle of a game) I really have to wonder why it's such a debate.

/commentary on the JotWW x4 debate Just looking at the points cost for those priests vs the return I don't see it as overpowered or even that attractive of an option honestly. What could I do with 400 points (or 300 if you're running one priest anyway).
In most lists Bejorn or Logan are going to be more worth the points for HQ choices if you're interested in putting that much down. Or better yet get both Cainus and Ulric for 65 pts more, leave one priest in and go wild that way.

anyway don't feel heckled for working your way through a new codex (in fact I highly suggest working your way through all of them even if you don't intend to play more than one army)

Cheers,
Phoenix

[DarkLink]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure this was already brought up, and still the general consensus seems to be that you may take the same individual powers. Just saying...

[dagonis]

I don't really think the language justifies it tbh. See my above explanation for why.

[Dingareth]

nor may they bear the same psychic powers or wargears combination

Yes, because everyone uses the word wargears. So Games Workshop knows nothing about parallel structure, I'm willing to put this one under crappy writing rather than make sweeping assumptions that could potentially limit Space Wolves players. As you point out, there is some ambiguity; however, it comes down to the placement of the comma before nor. That separates the singular Saga- which no character may have the same of- from the multiple psychic powers or wargear combination- which no character may repeat.

It all comes down to the comma, not the s.

[MVBrandt]

Psychic Powers, plural, kind of resolves it all. It does not say they may not have the same psychic power, it says they may not have the same psychic powerS.

If Joe has on an orange shirt, and blue pants, and Mindy has on the same orange shirt, and green pants, they are not wearing the same clothes (plural), they are just wearing the same shirt.

Unless their psychic POWERS are the same (meaning plural, not one), you're golden with 4 x jotww.

[mkerr]

I'm in agreement with MVBrandt here. The word "powers" (as opposed to "power") is the key.

[Rapture]

Psychic Powers, plural, kind of resolves it all. It does not say they may not have the same psychic power, it says they may not have the same psychic powerS.

If Joe has on an orange shirt, and blue pants, and Mindy has on the same orange shirt, and green pants, they are not wearing the same clothes (plural), they are just wearing the same shirt.

Unless their psychic POWERS are the same (meaning plural, not one), you're golden with 4 x jotww.

A good examination. I think you are right as well.