Cool Models vs Proxies

[Mystery.Shadow]

In a recent Apocalypse Game, someone brought an Eldar Phantom Titan.
To counter, another player brought some 'beverage can Drop Pods' and proxied some Salamanders as Salamanders equipped with Combi-Meltas.

[url]http://album.warpshadow.com/v/HiveFleetMysteryShadow/Memorial+Day+Massacre+2013/05270041.JPG.html[/url]

What does the 40k public think about practices like this? How important is WYSIWYG ?

[eldargal]

In my group we allow such proxies to try out rules. But if you want to play in one of our Apocalypse games you have to have the models you want to play with and they have to be painted. It's a great incentive to get people painting. The only exceptions are made for players with very restricted budgets, we don't feel they should be penalised. In which case we lend them suitbly proxies.

Really not ok with this beyond a one off joke personally.

[Nabterayl]

My group, by contrast, is pretty much fine with it. But ... why do you ask? Are you trying to figure out what your own attitude should be, or trying to decide if your own attitude (whatever it is) is reasonable?

[dirkspair]

i think apoc should be about what you have, all painted and WYSIWYG. it keeps the playing field kinda level instead of one person bringing his army of accurate models to have it countered on the fly by someone that proxies his units into units that are great at dealing with the things that show up in apoc games. we just played a game like that where some brought all accurate stuff and others had LR redeemers posing as spartans with 4 TL LCs holding 25 DC models and regular assault squads turned out to be 3x10 vanguard vets with melta bombs that took care of big, scary apoc models. it takes resources and dedication to field a good apoc force and it sucks to have it eliminated by someone who's main effort is to squeeze cheese out of his 2k 40k tourney army, if you catch my drift.

[isotope99]

Depends on what you're talking about, the points value of the game etc.

If it's a small-ish game where the phantom is a big surprise and the opposing player would otherwise have basically zero chance of countering the phantom, then such adjustments are probably preferable to a one sided game. If its a bigger game with other anti-titan weapons on the field and/or they just want 20 combi-meltas to stick it to the titan first turn then no.

[Denzark]

For me, in tourneys, WYSIWYG is quite important - I don't know all rules for all armies, I don't have time to work out what proxies are what if you are against the clock - so rule of cool is for out of skool. Still, don't complain if you can't see every little frag grenade.

In home terrain including Apoc, why the shizzle not? Unless you are implying someone only did this as hard counter to the Phantom and it was a little beardy...

[Mr Mystery]

Coke can drop pods? Hell. No. Would look rubbish!

[Pssyche]

I hate playing against non-WYSIWYG.

In my experience, pretty much every time I play against a painted WYSIWYG army, whether it's Apocalypse which is my favourite incarnation or Standard 40K, we have a great game.
Whenever I play against a non-WYSIWYG army, my opponent cheats.
Pure and simple.

[Gotthammer]

So it seems that superheavy players = all WYSIWYG, non-superheavy players = more accommodating.

I really dislike playing against non-WYSIWYG forces in Apoc, it gets too confusing when you have ten times the number of models on the board to keep track of. At bare minimum weapons/vehicles should be accurate - I can handle things like "this fancy Nob is Ghaz" or "my Ultramarines are Space Wolves" as it's esoteric stuff that wouldn't be on the table anyway.

[lomaxxdurang]

So it seems that superheavy players = all WYSIWYG, non-superheavy players = more accommodating.

I really dislike playing against non-WYSIWYG forces in Apoc, it gets too confusing when you have ten times the number of models on the board to keep track of. At bare minimum weapons/vehicles should be accurate - I can handle things like "this fancy Nob is Ghaz" or "my Ultramarines are Space Wolves" as it's esoteric stuff that wouldn't be on the table anyway.

I don't see a problem with non-WYSIWYG. I am preferable to WYSIWYG, but I find it creates elitist attitudes which limits people from getting to have fun in a lot of cases. Also I think the rule of cool really applies in a lot of cases, for example with my Leman Russ Exterminators, Punishers, and vanquishers with cupola heavy stubbers. The facts are it looks awesome, and when I want to field them it gives me three extra shots with punishers and exterminators and with the vanquishers I use it if I am using forgeworld rules.

As to super heavy users vs. non super heavy users I own 4 super heavies and between my wife and I we have about 20k IG as of this weekend, 10-12k orks, 8k CSM, and 4k Eldar.
The only game where I got annoyed at proxying was my CSM against my buddies son's new Tau, where he used a coke can for a rip tide, 3 terrain trees for Forgeworld Tau Sensor what nots, and he'd allied necrons using 2 of my Valkyries for necron fliers and kroot and a ethereal for the necron troops and hq. I was annoyed because he didnt tell me upfront hey I am bringing Forgeworld and oh I am going to need your stuff and I am not prepared well. This got on my nerves, but typically a lack of WYSIWYG doesn't ruin games in my neck of the woods.