Wrathknight: Why is this a thing?

[Fueldrop]

Ok, let's talk about the Wrathknight. For anyone who doesn't know, it's a T8 jetpacking monsterous creature with 6 wounds, strength 10 and comes stock with a pair of massive strength 10 ap 1 weapons. it can be outfitted for close combat or with a triple-tapping plasma cannon and blinding forcefield, and can take up to 2 heavy weapons on top of that.

And it is rubbish.

the price tag on this thing is staggering, to the point where I cannot see any reason to take one... particularly because whatever you outfit it to do can be done as well by a different heavy support choice, cheaper.

Let's take a look at the stock standard model. for just over a third of the points you can pick up a support battery with 3 vibro cannons. At first glance the vibro cannons seem like a clearly inferior choice and they are. however...
Vs shooting there's only a single point of toughness difference.
The vibro cannons are getting 3 shots rather than 2.
While on average there's 2 points of strength difference in their hits, the fact remains that both are quite capable of messing up most vehicles, their primary role, and if both are guided then the Vibro cannons arguably become equal with 3 S9 AP2 hits compared to 2 S10 AP1.
The Vibro Cannon battery can take twice as many wounds as the Wrathknight, though to be fair it starts losing efficiency fairly quickly and its saves are not as good.
The Wrathknight clearly wins out as far as mobility is concerned, with jump MC status compared to Artillery.
The Wrathknight also wins in close combat, hands down.

So it seems like I've answered my own question, right? Except that the price difference is so staggering that the vibro cannon battery is far better in the role of ranged tank-killer because it's almost as good for so much less.

Let's take a look at the anti-infantry configuration, and again compare it to our friendly neighborhood support battery.
This time we're using shadow weavers, and coming in and a pip under a third of the price.
Just quickly:
Guns are the same strength, with the shadow weaver going up against vehicles and low-initiative infantry.
AP2 to rending (or close enough).
same range.
Shadow weavers have barrage, allowing them to bring the pain without ever needing to see their foes.

The price difference is so vast that you can have a full shadow weaver battery, throw in a CC-specked wraithlord, and still come out with enough points left over for a 5-man dire avenger squad... including Exarch! That's a big difference!

So help me out here. what is the purpose of this massive target/point sink that isn't better filled with a few cheaper, more focused units?

[HERO]

It has AP2 weapons.

Honestly, one of the reasons why I hate on the WK is because of its weapon. If it had 2x S10 AP2 Blast D-weapons, I would be perfectly fine with its killing potential. However, since it's only a single shot, it's a bit underwhelming.

Surprisingly, what it does give us is the power of a T8 MC in melee.

[Fueldrop]

It has AP2 weapons.

Nice catch.

Surprisingly, what it does give us is the power of a T8 MC in melee.

While this is true, you can take a support battery and CC wraithlord for less than any configuration of Wraithknight, giving you the firepower AND the close-combat killyness while forcing your enemies to concentrate on killing one or the other.

Also, when a Wraithlord is better at hugging cover than you, you know you're in trouble.

[Fueldrop]

Ok, I'm no mathhammer lord but I just want to quickly run the numbers on the theory that a Wraithknight's role is fire magnet.

Wraithknight vs krak missile spam: 6 wounds, S8 v T8, 12 hits.
Wave Serpent APC with holofields (100 points cheaper): 3 hull points, Krak glances on 4+ (Wave serpent shield converts pen to glance on 2+), Jink 4+. 3*2*2 = 12 hits.
In other words, a wave serpent APC has comparable ability to shrug off damage at a significantly lower price.

Adding a forcefield to the Wraithknight increases this ability to take hits by 33%, though the cost either kills its ranged weaponry or increases the price significantly, to the point where you can get 2 wave serpents with holofields for the same price. As a result I cannot really say that this unit makes a cost-effective fire magnet.

[chicop76]

Nice catch.

While this is true, you can take a support battery and CC wraithlord for less than any configuration of Wraithknight, giving you the firepower AND the close-combat killyness while forcing your enemies to concentrate on killing one or the other.

Also, when a Wraithlord is better at hugging cover than you, you know you're in trouble.

For some reason area terrain would give it a cover save. Only vehicles fall unde 25% in area terrain.

It's really 2 40" strength 10 guns at ap 1. All I can say here potential instant death on mst thing on a roll of 6. Blast would be nice, but it can't shot air if you needed him too.

The issue here is you are getting a Nightbringer with like a 100 point reduction. The only models that hit close to his cost is a trygon prime, bare loc, and bare bloodthirster. Out of those 3 models with no buffs he is harder to kill than those other units.

Honestly I don't see why not. He can move 6" and ad6" in the assault phase as movement. Just with my riptides I found my self smashing tanks a lot at armor 13 and up. The knight can do it better. More manuverable than a lord.

Also can a lord deepstrike at an enemy location.

I think the bare lord works for me. It's an anti vehicle threat which is very hard to kill. The wraith lord is semi hard to kill. The wraithlord dies in turn 1-2 compared to a knight 3-4.

Stick the lord in area terrain and if you get +1 armour he now becomes harder to kill.

[calamitycal]

It's kind of ironic that both of the big new releases for the Eldar are largely considered not worth taking or only worth taking in very, very limited roles.

Ok, I'm no mathhammer lord but I just want to quickly run the numbers on the theory that a Wraithknight's role is fire magnet.

Wraithknight vs krak missile spam: 6 wounds, S8 v T8, 12 hits.
Wave Serpent APC with holofields (100 points cheaper): 3 hull points, Krak glances on 4+ (Wave serpent shield converts pen to glance on 2+), Jink 4+. 3*2*2 = 12 hits.
In other words, a wave serpent APC has comparable ability to shrug off damage at a significantly lower price.

Adding a forcefield to the Wraithknight increases this ability to take hits by 33%, though the cost either kills its ranged weaponry or increases the price significantly, to the point where you can get 2 wave serpents with holofields for the same price. As a result I cannot really say that this unit makes a cost-effective fire magnet.

[Learn2Eel]

When using the Wraithknight, people really need to remember that it benefits from cover in the same way that Infantry do. Per the rules, if even a tiny part of its base is touching/over a piece of terrain, it gets a cover save. For a Jump Monstrous Creature, it means you can move twelve inches into terrain and ignore the dangerous terrain test because you have Move Through Cover. Unless you play on a board with very little terrain, finding a cover save for this thing is very easy.

[Sainhann]

Ok, let's talk about the Wrathknight. For anyone who doesn't know, it's a T8 jetpacking monsterous creature with 6 wounds, strength 10 and comes stock with a pair of massive strength 10 ap 1 weapons. it can be outfitted for close combat or with a triple-tapping plasma cannon and blinding forcefield, and can take up to 2 heavy weapons on top of that.

And it is rubbish.

the price tag on this thing is staggering, to the point where I cannot see any reason to take one... particularly because whatever you outfit it to do can be done as well by a different heavy support choice, cheaper.

Let's take a look at the stock standard model. for just over a third of the points you can pick up a support battery with 3 vibro cannons. At first glance the vibro cannons seem like a clearly inferior choice and they are. however...
Vs shooting there's only a single point of toughness difference.
The vibro cannons are getting 3 shots rather than 2.
While on average there's 2 points of strength difference in their hits, the fact remains that both are quite capable of messing up most vehicles, their primary role, and if both are guided then the Vibro cannons arguably become equal with 3 S9 AP2 hits compared to 2 S10 AP1.
The Vibro Cannon battery can take twice as many wounds as the Wrathknight, though to be fair it starts losing efficiency fairly quickly and its saves are not as good.
The Wrathknight clearly wins out as far as mobility is concerned, with jump MC status compared to Artillery.
The Wrathknight also wins in close combat, hands down.

So it seems like I've answered my own question, right? Except that the price difference is so staggering that the vibro cannon battery is far better in the role of ranged tank-killer because it's almost as good for so much less.

Let's take a look at the anti-infantry configuration, and again compare it to our friendly neighborhood support battery.
This time we're using shadow weavers, and coming in and a pip under a third of the price.
Just quickly:
Guns are the same strength, with the shadow weaver going up against vehicles and low-initiative infantry.
AP2 to rending (or close enough).
same range.
Shadow weavers have barrage, allowing them to bring the pain without ever needing to see their foes.

The price difference is so vast that you can have a full shadow weaver battery, throw in a CC-specked wraithlord, and still come out with enough points left over for a 5-man dire avenger squad... including Exarch! That's a big difference!

So help me out here. what is the purpose of this massive target/point sink that isn't better filled with a few cheaper, more focused units?

To have some of the GW customers to hand over money for a model that is not the best Heavy Support choice.

War Walkers for just 30 points less can have 22 more shots than it.

There are individuals who have gotten two of these things.

Though with what GW is putting out so far; the Riptide for Tau, this for Eldar and soon the Lord of Battle for Chaos you could come up with some rules and fight some mini titan battles.

Going to be interesting to see just what the Imperial Guard and Space Marines will be getting.

They won't be worth the money either but they should be interesting.

[chicop76]

When using the Wraithknight, people really need to remember that it benefits from cover in the same way that Infantry do. Per the rules, if even a tiny part of its base is touching/over a piece of terrain, it gets a cover save. For a Jump Monstrous Creature, it means you can move twelve inches into terrain and ignore the dangerous terrain test because you have Move Through Cover. Unless you play on a board with very little terrain, finding a cover save for this thing is very easy.

Which goes back to why would I even bother with the +5 invulnerable save.

[Sainhann]

Ok, I'm no mathhammer lord but I just want to quickly run the numbers on the theory that a Wraithknight's role is fire magnet.

Wraithknight vs krak missile spam: 6 wounds, S8 v T8, 12 hits.
Wave Serpent APC with holofields (100 points cheaper): 3 hull points, Krak glances on 4+ (Wave serpent shield converts pen to glance on 2+), Jink 4+. 3*2*2 = 12 hits.
In other words, a wave serpent APC has comparable ability to shrug off damage at a significantly lower price.

Adding a forcefield to the Wraithknight increases this ability to take hits by 33%, though the cost either kills its ranged weaponry or increases the price significantly, to the point where you can get 2 wave serpents with holofields for the same price. As a result I cannot really say that this unit makes a cost-effective fire magnet.

Thing about the Force Field it is very likely to be Blinding your own troops which would not be good for you.