LEGALWATCH: Games Workshop vs Chapterhouse Verdict

[Deadlift]

well for starters, if they don't make a mini for it, expect it to drop from your codex
Also expect to only ever see 3 kits a release, no more rules with a model to come.

At the rate GW are releasing codexes I would expect that to happen anyway. But then most of those kits are capable of making 2 different units anyway. So 3 plastics = 6 units. Sounds good to me.

[daboarder]

I think daemons are the only place where this is likely.

edit: I'm just saying their current releases feel a little...sterile? its something ive noticed since CSM. maybe its the pace, maybe it CHS

[Magpie]

If they are dropping un-modelled rules from Codices, do you think we might see models released with their rules included?
Or perhaps as a White Dwarf article?

[Cap'nSmurfs]

I think that's a combination of the pace and the time/energy they've spent on doing the Big Models. Most of those have several sculptors working on them at once, and between doing the concept, design, discussions with rules writers for what tend to be entirely new things, I think they take a bit longer than "let's do a new Ravenwing box!" or "Pathfinders - IN PLASTIC!"

I think the only really direct influence the CHS case has had was the Space Wolves/Tyranid joint release last year and the new policy of making sure there's a GW model for every GW codex entry where possible.

Releases with rules coming alongside them has been a thing for years now. See the Eldar Nightspinner, the Space Marine/Ork/Necron fliers in WD (collected in that flier book, whatever it's called) etc.

[Mr Mystery]

As for knock on effects in the bits market...

I think it will, oddly, hit the bits market harder than GW. Ultimately, GW are now preventing range gaps at source. Whilst there is work to be done in that respect, it's nothing they can't achieve. Once completed, bits can only really offer alternatives. To those who don't like GE model A, will look at the alternatives. And there is no guarantee any given bits manufacturer will get customer loyalty. So the more that art up, the more diluted their market will become. This threatens them far more than GW. It will come down to quality, and possibly price.

[Caitsidhe]

While the Lawyers for Games Workshop certainly made a mint and the Lawyers working for Chapterhouse struck gold in reputation and performance (turns into money later), the real winner her is the CONSUMER. Chapterhouse is irrelevant. I'm not saying that to be mean, but they are already being passed in quality by lots of companies supplying models and bits. The only thing important about them is that they are the "opener of the way" so to speak. Chapterhouse will have to really bear down if they are catch up with some of the other rivals even within their own circles.

I've said this many times and I'm going to say it again. The hobby is WARGAMING. It isn't Games Workshop. GW is just a merchant, nothing more and nothing less. I don't hate Games Workshop. I dislike it when any merchant gains too much of an upper hand in a market because it is bad of the consumer. Like the verdict or not, the system worked. The outcome gave us clear, clean rules by which third party model producers can market their own product. This gives us more options. This is likely to drive down prices OVERALL, although it may or may not affect Games Workshop.

I also think this situation, particularly here, illustrates that most people can't tell the difference (or at least don't understand the lines between) Copyright, Trademark, and Patents (thrown in just because). I think it is important that we learn them. I think it is even MORE important that we learn why they exist. Of even greater value is understanding that you don't get to stick a flag in an idea. Intellectual Property isn't a gold rush where there are only the quick and the dead. Like it or not, zeitgeist exists and most ideas and notions belong to us collectively. This case (and the many to come like it in other fields) are important because if some had their way you would be paying a fee to do nearly EVERYTHING because I assure you that someone will have had an idea "like" it at one time and now says it belongs to them.

[Loken]

Those who feel GW have been 'bullies' are I feel being a bit naive.

And don't forget, CH exists solely as a (my words) parasite company. All their money came from using someone else's graft. I personally find that distasteful, hence why I'd be quite happy to see them go. BUT... Had the stuff subject to the trial been only one part of their range, and they'd perhaps created their own setting, regardless of which one might consider to be the ancillary, then yeah, fair enough. Shut down the infringing, but leave them able to continue on their original stuff. But they have none. No GW? No CH....

Absolutely absurd. The aftermarket parts company is standard business practice and not a "parasite" industry. Tell that to the BILLION $ after market car parts business.

So tired of the haters who don't like after market bitz and trying to rationalize that in a business case.

[Loken]

judge might still award cost GW's legal cost to CHS, that would kinda end them. and as the original IP holders, I think thats likely is it not?

No, the judge won't award costs in a case where CH so clearly won on a number of issues and GW so clearly got their overreach slapped down. Awarding of costs doesn't happen all that much in the US in a case where the verdict is so clearly split.

Make no mistake, this was no win for GW and they lost more than Chapterhouse. GW got shown to be lying over-reachers who don't own all the things they claim to.

[Loken]

judge might still award cost GW's legal cost to CHS, that would kinda end them. and as the original IP holders, I think thats likely is it not?

No, the judge won't award costs in a case where CH so clearly won on a number of issues and GW so clearly got their overreach slapped down. Awarding of costs doesn't happen all that much in the US in a case where the verdict is so clearly split.

Make no mistake, this was no win for GW and they lost more than Chapterhouse. GW got shown to be lying over-reachers who don't own all the things they claim to.

[Wildcard]

Personally i do not understand why people (or companies) are upset that someone makes a 3rd party supplementary parts to existing products. It could also be seen as consumer protection to state that ones 3rd party products are compatible with "GW's 40k products".

This is pretty much as the court stated is ok, if i understood correctly, yet still people moan about "leeches"..

Also general scifi / fantasy terms for races should automatically be safe from any kind of IP claims. For example a few quick general quotes:

"Marine is an adjective for things relating to the sea or ocean--" and
"The United States Marine Corps (USMC) is a branch of the United States Armed Forces responsible for providing power projection from the sea--"
And if i am not mistaken, "Space Marine" has been derived to science fiction way before games workshop used it (this was stated one of the topics concerning this legal struggle), and as such even that term should be included in the "general scifi-terms". Also titans, walkers, craft that hover (skimmers in 40k) etc are all outside of 40k.

However, to reduce the amount of hate responding to this post it is worth stating that i am with gw on it that their unique stuff like ultramarines, blood angels, gods, few race names (Necrons, Tau and so forth) should be protected and honoured.

And then back to the physical sculpts: I have bought 3rd party heads from pig iron productions to use with my IG models. Would I have bought them from GW / ForgeWorld if they would have had similar products? -Most likely. Would i update my forces if GW would release supplementary heads for IG, not likely, but i would not hesitate to get them in the future when expanding my army.

Same with scibor "custodians". I find it infuriating that a big company would feel bad if they haven't had the time to craft miniatures that resemble their mysterious dudes. I haven't yet bought a single custodian from scibor, but i've been tempted to. Luckily Forge is pumping out 30k stuff now and i may have a change to get true custodians. Yet they will also most likely be cast in resin, rather than plastic - which i dislike.

Being a capitalist my self I support the ideology that if someone makes a product, to compete other has to make either a better product or make similar quality product for cheaper. And I personally like the quality more, and with GW, i know i can trust their quality so the question always is, Do the GW/FW provide me with a product i want or do i have to settle for a substitute.

This is my personal opinion: A company should never be allowed to own something that they cannot or will not produce and at the same time deny the access for public to something substituting product. This hinders with advancement and is one of the most critical reasons why patents have a fixed time (in years tho) that cannot be prolonged.