The Black Mace vs. Multi-Wound Models

[Magpie]

'One or more'. The Black Mace does not say that. I think that has to count for something.
For the record, I'm just talking about the original issue of whether it causes multiple Toughness tests, not the Feel no Pain issue.

Yes that is correct. Pinning is specifically per unit, and is taken once per shooting attack on the unit until such time as it becomes pinned.
Black Mace is after each unsaved wound being suffered by a model.

So Pinning once per attack, BM once per unsaved wound
No argument there.

[Lord Krungharr]

I'm still on the fence about whether or not the Black Mace forces a Toughness Test after each unsaved wound, rather than just 1 Test ( I would love it to be the former, but it is certainly up in the air til an FAQ).

However, FNP can NOT be used to negate the wound which would force the Black Mace's Toughness Test.

FNP is explicitly described as not being a save, and so happens after the saving throws. Secondly, the precedent set by the Force Weapon FAQ says the word 'immediately' in the rule's description takes precedence over FNP; the word 'immediately' is also used in the Black Mace's Curse rule. Therefore, 'immediately' after suffering an unsaved wound the model would take a Toughness Test. If it was not removed as a casualty then the model could try its FNP roll to negate the wound.

[Lord Krungharr]

Actually that gives a precedent that FNP comes before the other tests are made. They needed to make a special FAQ regarding force weapon activation to allow it to go before FNP, so it could go before FNP while other characteristic test rolls could not come before FNP.

They did make an FAQ about it: [url]http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m3170233a_40K_RULEBOOK_v1.4_APRIL13.pdf[/url]

see page 5 towards the bottom right side...

FNP is not able to negate the wound before Force Activation, nor would it be able to negate wounds before the Black Mace Curses a model.

[dreadnoughtguy]

OK now Im stumped ...

The rules are a normal GW cluster F**k.

You can take FNP vs Perrils ... which means that perrils from activating a force weapon which happens before FNP can still be negated by FNP. Wha? yep thats right FNP kicks in after force weapon activation (per the FAQ) yet perrils from said force weapon activation happens after FNP saves? Even though both say that they happen "immedatly on a wound being suffered."

So every weapon that can interact with FNP will need a FAQ. Good job GW, your rules are Sh*t once again. They cant even be bothered to make sure their FAQ's match up with each other.

[Magpie]

The GW rules are only as much of a cluster as you want them to be.

The FAQ says that the defending model takes FNP after attempted force weapon activation.
If Perils is suffered from attempting to activate then that is the attacker who is rolling for FNP.

You talking two separate FNP processes.

So process is,
Unsaved wound inflicted, attacker rolls for activation, fails to activate and suffers perils.
Attacker rolls FNP v Perils, defender rolls FNP v unsaved wound in what ever order.

[DarkLink]

OK now Im stumped ...

The rules are a normal GW cluster F**k.

You can take FNP vs Perrils ... which means that perrils from activating a force weapon which happens before FNP can still be negated by FNP. Wha? yep thats right FNP kicks in after force weapon activation (per the FAQ) yet perrils from said force weapon activation happens after FNP saves? Even though both say that they happen "immedatly on a wound being suffered."

So every weapon that can interact with FNP will need a FAQ. Good job GW, your rules are Sh*t once again. They cant even be bothered to make sure their FAQ's match up with each other.

Really? It's not that complicated. The FAQ says you inflict the wound, they activate Force Weapons, and if they succeed you don't get FNP. Not that complicated. If the timing really bugs you, just imagine them powering up their Force Weapons just as they're striking the blow, not that it's really relevant to the rules.