The Black Mace vs. Multi-Wound Models

[DarkLink]

FNP isn't a save, but you ignore the effects of the wound when you make FNP, so you don't have to take the T test.

[Allen Broussard]

But you dont get to take FNP againgst instant death effects, i.e. force weapon activation.

Hmm.....black maces toughness test doesnt cause instant death though. it removes the model.


Tricksy tricksy

[euansmith]

GW always say that they write their rules loosely because they expect them to be used in friendly games; however, there is nothing likely to take the chumminess out of a friendly game faster than a set of loosely written rules. This is one reason why I've given up on 40k

[SacredChao]

I would give more credence to the black mace only causing 1 toughness test, except that in the exact same entry it didn't use the "caused at least 1 unsaved wound" phrase. It's "An Unsaved Wound" for the target, and "Caused At Least One Unsaved Wound" for the aura effect.

As for Feel No Pain, I would imagine that the order is this: Wound -> Armor/Invuln/Cover -> Effect of Unsaved Wound -> Feel No Pain (if alive).

Although it occurs to me that the last two order probably doesn't matter, since Feel No Pain isn't a save and can't have an effect on something triggered from unsaved wounds, besides the actual wound of the model.

[SeattleDV8]

If you have Feel No Pain you make a roll to 'avoid being wounded' if you pass the roll 'the unsaved Wound is discounted'

There is no longer an unsaved Wound if you pass the FnP test, therefore no toughness test.

[DarkLink]

If you pass FNP, you don't actually suffer the unsaved wound. You don't take the T test.

[Magpie]

If you don't suffer and Unsaved Wound you can take FNP, so you do suffer the wound but the effects of it are ignored.

[Aramel]

Even if you pass your FNP, it's still an unsaved wound... The wound was prevented by something other than a save. Whether it not an actual wound is ignored does not come into play.

[Nabterayl]

Even if you pass your FNP, it's still an unsaved wound...

I don't think that's true. As page 35 says, upon a successful FNP roll, "the unsaved Wound is discounted - treat it as having been saved."

FNP converts unsaved wounds to saved wounds.

[Lunar Camel]

It would appear that if a multi-wound model loses one save it dies (almost like taking damage from a Force Weapon). "If a model suffers an unsaved Wound from the Black Mace it must immediately take a Toughness test. If the test is failed, remove the model as a casualty with no saves of any kind allowed." So you would first take your appropiate armor saves first (regular, invulnerable, FNP). After that its a characteristic test and not a failed armor save. By failing the test, then you suffer the effects of the weapon. But as the Black Mace rules say, if the test is failed (not the wound save) you're dead.