Supplement Codex Rumor Roundup

[Daemonette666]

Just thinking about the rumoured Grav weapons mentioned on the front page. How does it work against models that do not have any armour save at all - i.e. Daemons that only have an invulnerable save? Does it still wound them on a 6, or is it unable to wound them at all?

Looks like the Grav weapon is a Plasma gun without the overheat problems, designed to take out the heavy hitters like the new MCs, Terminators, Obliterators/Mutilators, and even be able to take out all those hard to kill units like Nurgle Bikers, etc.

Form what I have heard, it is in limited number (does not replace the humble bolter), but is a specialist or heavy weapon, with the pistol possibly being an upgrade for elite infantry and HQs. It could damage vehicles regardless of their Armour value on a 6, and be almost useless against horde forces like Ork green tides, Eldar Guardian Footdar, Chaos Cultist horde forces, Imperial Guard infantry heavy Armies, and Tau that use predominately Kroot and units with low armour values, who rely on cover saves and shroud. Space Marine armies could begin to look like massed scout armies with camo cloaks, and characters to boost their cover saves.

Oh well this is all just based on rumours, and we know not to take them as real until we see it in front of our faces. Also if true, it forces gamers to build more balanced armies to cope with them. Add to this the sudden advantage SMs get with 2 new Anti-flier vehicles, Flakk missiles, and their 2 fliers, they are almost guaranteed air superiority. Then you add in their Terminators, drop pods, and other regular nasty units, and add to this the now rumoured cheaper space marine tactical squads, and you have a very powerful army.

It makes me wish that Codex Chaos Marines was released about this time, so we got a few of the really good things. Maybe some thing similar to a Psychic hood that Librarians get, but for Tzeentch Sorcerers, and Khorne Collars for MoK unit champions and ICs. Maybe the Mutilators would be replaced by something similar to a dread knight, or a Wraith Knight with a few nice little abilities such as wings huge invul saves, etc. Who knows, but being first off the shelf when it comes to being the new codex off the block , sometimes (well usually) means you do not get rules as good as those that come later.

[DrLove42]

Tigerius makes me sad

Mastery 3, all the lores, rerolling lores, rerolling physic tests and a physic hood

Good to know Eldar enjoyed being the best pyskers for....2 months?

[eldargal]

Yep, he might not necessarily be OP but it is still a kick in the teeth. The best psyker from a race of bald apes is superior to the greatest psykers of an inherently psychic race who have been practicing their craft for millions of years.

[DrLove42]

The ability to reroll when determining random powers should have been Eldar wargear.

[eldargal]

Yup.

Thinking ahead to Dark Eldar supplements, IF the rumours that future supplements might include new models I think the following might be possible:

Kabal of the Black Heart - Asdrubael Vect/Dias of Destruction (maybe, but unlikely unless Finecast conversion kit), Voidraven
Prophets of Flesh - Grotesque box with new sculpts, Finecast or plastic.
Cult of Strife - 6'x4 Lelith Hesperax poster....

I can't really think of any other obvious choices, unless they do something really unexpected like Lady Malys and her Kabal of the Poisoned Tongue.

[Kyban]

The ability to reroll when determining random powers should have been Eldar wargear.

IMO they really screwed up the Eldar codex, for the ability to predict the future they don't have any rules that reflect it. The rule quality was terrible no matter how well they do on the table. It just isn't "Eldary"... I don't think they can fix it much with the supplements either and what with the rumored grav weapons even the wraithwarriors lose their coolness.

[Daemonette666]

I am starting to feel like not playing my beloved Chaos Marines anymore. The decent units in my army seem to have a counter unit or weapon in each army, and I they have not been given the flexibility and speed of some of the other codexes out there.

Obliterators which have been limited in their use because of small unit size, expensive points, not being able to use the same weapon twice in a row, only 1 48" range weapon, Slow and purposeful so they can not run to a new position easily, and can not overwatch. They are not close combat orientated, and now they can not hide in ruins as well as they used to, because every new army has some form of ignores cover weapon, and to add to it all, they introduce Graviton guns.

Helldrake: The vehicle that made Chaos Marine armies usable and help them survive and win games when they were being pummeled elsewhere. It now has each new army released after it came out having more options for skyfire, and some of them get Intercept weaponry. I addition to this the new codexes each 2 fliers, some of which are transports, while others are dedicated anti-flier fighters, and others are dual role fighter bombers. The best load out for Helldrakes makes them unable to shoot at other fliers, and then you have to hope your helldrakes come in the turn after the enemy fliers, and come in together so you can take the enemy fliers out with Vector strikes, and possibly then take a few ground targets out before they get blown out of the sky (as it often happens lately). C:CSM also get only 2 options for anti-flier, not counting the quadcannon and ADL that all armnies can use (except the poor Nids) . The Havoc flakk missile launchers are 25 points each. I know other armies have the same problem with expensive Flakk Missiles, but they also get 2 fliers, and some vehicle that gets anti-air capabilities. I find Daemon Princes are an expensive unit to take just for taking out enemy fliers, and if you add psychic powers to them to make them a bit more useful in hurting the enemy, they are a bigger loss when they die (usually to a failed invul save after a bad grounding test).

CSM troops are not too bad, but the loss in LD, and the loss of the CCW, the expensive cost to put it back on make them too expensive sometimes. Cultists are OK if you have a fearless HQ to add to them, and they can get a decent Chaos Mark to make them last longer. Having to purchase Lords, or Tzeentch Sorcerers to unlock Cult units and make them troops choices, but some of them have lost their old punch like Noise marines. Yes I can add a FNP banner, but the enemy can remove the banner bearer and goodbye FNP. I know all Noise weapons have the ignores cover rule now, and most are pinning, but the loss of the sonic blasters assault 2/ heavy 3 stat making them salvo 2/3 puts them into objective holding role where the enemy can send in units like Terminators to take them out. Berserkers have lost some their old usefulness with the 6th ed rule changes, and how they changed the mark of Khorne. I suppose getting counter attack and rage when you take the Khorne banner helps a little. Nurgle with their fear is practically useless with so many armies that you see being fielded are SMs or variants of Space Marines so you get ATSKNF which ignores the fear rule. Tzeentch gives a 6+ invul save (or +1 to invul save), but you really can not get much else because the soul blaze they seem to get for everything is a but lack luster.

Every army has been getting some huge bug nasty weapons platform Tgh 6 to Tgh 8 MC with nasty abilities, and lots of wounds. They are really hard to take down, and some of them are quite cheap for what you get. The daemon Princes I can field are as expensive, but do not have the same durability with a base Tgh of 5.

What has helped CSM armies a bit has been some of the new units, and a piece of equipment that should have been allowed to go on every vehicle that CSM get. Namely Dirge casters. Imagine if Mauler fiends and Forge Fiends as well the now almost useless Dreadnought (sorry Hell Brute). If they gave us a flier transport or drop pods, CSM lists might be a bit more useable and get to work in their traditional role as assault armies.

We get "It will not die" on a lot of the Daemon vehicles, but that does not stop them from blowing up to a melta gun. The 5+ invul save the Daemon vehicles get also helps out in keeping them alive, but sometimes I roll really bad, and goodbye expensive daemonic walker.

I have found that using either Daemons or Guard as allies seems to be the only way to bring a balance back to the list, and counter the short falls that have popped up because the enemy seem to be faster, can shoot and run back into cover, have lots of jet bikes, infiltrators, outflanking troops, and now a lot of units with nasty special rules. Special rules C:CSM used to have like tank hunters, infiltrate, scout, etc.

I just hope they give some of the Legion codexes they have rumoured to be releasing some love and give Nightlords units Night vision, Stealth, and Infiltrate, Iron warriors tank hunters, relentless, and fleshbane, and maybe the ability to improve their defenses. Each Legion should get something to make them a bit better than the current codex has made them. I just hope they do not stuff up my favourite Legion (3rd) the Emperor's Children.

Yes it seem like a whinge, but they have made some armies like the Dark Angels which cam out early just as lack luster. Daemons had a few really good rules in the previous codex, and now they seem to have removed a lot of the benefits they had before. The Tzeentch daemons have lost the 4+ invul (only to get re-rolls if they roll a 1). They introduced more tables and charts that you need to roll up on. They thankfully gave them a vehicle to help with the skyfire/ flier problem, and you can unlock Daemon Princes from HQs to be Heavy support, but I would have preferred to see them as elites so you can use more soul grinders. The other options for heavy support a silly. Chariots, and skull cannons. I also hate the hellflayer and what they did to furies. The Plague Drones are a nice novelty unit, and I find that seekers, and hounds are the better FA options.

The Codex Daemons Elites are also pretty bland with Bloodcrushers the best option, and it seems you have to pay for that. Flamers are worse than before, and still expensive, while Beasts although they get the nice counter charge type of rule, and slime trail, they still cost a fair bit each, although it is way down on the 100 points they cost before. Epi was a bit overpowered, but I think they could have done it differently so he was still useful. I suppose I am not all that great at using Daemons because I tend not to take them as much as I take IG allies.

Also because I have been playing a lot of other games like Dystopian Wars and Classic Battletech.

It is weird. I have spent more on other gaming (non GW) systems of late than ever before) I suppose because I have most of what I need, and because many of the new units do not appeal to me.

It would be nice if GW did something like they did for the Daemons with their WD release for Flamers and Screamers, and as they did for Orks and Space Marines with the Fighta-Bomerz and Storm Raven. The Chaos Marines really need a flier transport (Fast attack) and drop pods (dedicated transport). I would start laying my CSM army a bit mope then.

[Thaldin]

Yup.

Thinking ahead to Dark Eldar supplements, IF the rumours that future supplements might include new models I think the following might be possible:

<snip>
Cult of Strife - 6'x4 Lelith Hesperax poster....
<snip>

Yes please =D

[lattd]

On the dark eldar side, you could have a such cult list which adds new creature from the arena, so we may seen khymera pack as a troop choice that doesn't count as one of the necessary troop choices, then the beast master may get a new creature etc.

[keithsilva]

I want my Ulthwé supplement codex. I want my Farseers and Warlocks of doom as well bad *** guardians, as well as a new Storm/Defender model.