Hexrifle vs Feel no Pain!

[chicop76]

I was wondering if you can get FnP on a Hexrifle effect. Once hit there is no saves of anykind allowed. If you fail the charataristic test than you are removed from play. Would feel no pain stop the characteristic effect?

[Magpie]

No, as I said before, many times, FNP does not turn an unsaved wound into a saved one.

[chicop76]

Ok. Even though that's what it says almost exactly. You can save vs Perils of the Warp with Feel no Pain. You still didn't answer the question though. You gave a non answer.

[Magpie]

You don't save v perils of the warp with FNP, you discount the wound.

The Hexrifle characteristic test does not inflict a wound, it simply removes you from play.

So it would go, Hexrilfe inflicts wound, you fail your armour/cover/invul save, if you pass FNP then the wound is discounted but, as the wound is still unsaved, you take the characteristic test if you fail you are removed as a casualty. If you pass the Characteristic test the model remains in play and does not lose a wound.

Perils of the Warp simply inflicts a wound, which you can discount with a successful FNP roll. As FNP is not a save you are not "taking a save of any kind'

[steelmage99]

Both rules trigger off of the same effect.
They are resolved at the same time, they do not affect each other and their respective effects are applied to the model depending on the die-rolls for the individual rules.

Yes, this means that he FNP roll can be successful but the model is still removed as a casualty.

[Nabterayl]

Still disagree with Magpie. What it boils down to, Chicop, is how you read FNP. The text at issue is, "On a 5+, the unsaved Wound is discounted - treat it as having been saved."

If you think that means that you treat the unsaved wound as having been saved, then you probably think (as I do) that FNP preempts any effect that requires a model to have suffered an unsaved wound.

If you think that means that you treat the unsaved wound as unsaved, even though the model doesn't have to lose a Wound because of it (as Magpie does), you probably think that FNP does not preempt any effect that requires a model to have suffered an unsaved wound.

All you really have to decide (and by "you" I mean you and your opponents) is which version you subscribe to. Discussion of the issue is likely just to devolve into another Black Mace thread.

[chicop76]

Still disagree with Magpie. What it boils down to, Chicop, is how you read FNP. The text at issue is, "On a 5+, the unsaved Wound is discounted - treat it as having been saved."

If you think that means that you treat the unsaved wound as having been saved, then you probably think (as I do) that FNP preempts any effect that requires a model to have suffered an unsaved wound.

If you think that means that you treat the unsaved wound as unsaved, even though the model doesn't have to lose a Wound because of it (as Magpie does), you probably think that FNP does not preempt any effect that requires a model to have suffered an unsaved wound.

All you really have to decide (and by "you" I mean you and your opponents) is which version you subscribe to. Discussion of the issue is likely just to devolve into another Black Mace thread.

Lol. It probably will. I hope not. I did this one so people have less to work with and don't have to deal with activation since the result with this weapon or anything that causes a wound with a characteristic test will amount to the same thing. Also this weapon is worded a bit differantly.

Magpie gets that FnP is not a save. Which is half the battle.

What Magpie do not get is that it turns an unsaved wound into a save, which in effect means FnP can be used to save, not a save.

When we get the perils FAQ we learn that as long as you have a wound FnP can make that unsaved wound into a saved wound. Further more it also shows us that FnP is not a save, because if it was you wouldn't be able to use it at all.

With all that being said. All you need is a wound for FnP to be triggered. No wound than no FnP.

The issue is if FnP can be used to negate the Characteristic effect.

1. Would order of operations matter?
2. Would the remove from play effect have to wait for FnP to fo off?

I was also hoping that people would look more into those two question. Rather than repeat beating a dead horse and sticking to that dead horse with half a concept of what little they understand or read.

Magpie for example goes into the argument that FnP is not a save as soon as you say save. Even though you already explain it's not a save, and the only reason you are saying save is due to the effect of unsaved being saved. Also ignoring like 50 quotes on Feel no Pain which basiaclly says unsaved becomes saved. Saying saved is Magpies trigger to say FnP is not a save. The problem with this it does not answer the problem and creates more noise and confuse people.

[Ben_S]

I was wondering if you can get FnP on a Hexrifle effect. Once hit there is no saves of anykind allowed. If you fail the charataristic test than you are removed from play. Would feel no pain stop the characteristic effect?

I'm not clear on the question. Is it:

1) Does a successful FNP against the original wound avoid the need for any characteristic test?

Or:

2) Can you FNP to avoid being removed from play, following a failed characteristic test (triggered by an unsaved wound)?

The answer to the latter is clearly no I believe. The former is less clear and can be argued either way.

[chicop76]

I'm not clear on the question. Is it:

1) Does a successful FNP against the original wound avoid the need for any characteristic test?

Or:

2) Can you FNP to avoid being removed from play, following a failed characteristic test (triggered by an unsaved wound)?

The answer to the latter is clearly no I believe. The former is less clear and can be argued either way.

I'm asking both.

#1 is a matter of order
#2 is simply a wound matter. If #2 is yes it clears up a lot. While #1 can be argued.

[DarkLink]

No, as I said before, many times, FNP does not turn an unsaved wound into a saved one.

FNP causes you to discount the unsaved wound. You don't have an unsaved wound after FNP. Just because you didn't save it, doesn't mean that you can't still ignore it. It's fairly simple logic.

Think of it this way. You're in a fight. Someone tries to punch you in the face. You can block it, and not get punched in the face. You just made your saving throw. If you fail to block it, now you have a chance to dodge it. If you dodge it, you didn't block it, but you still didn't get punched in the face. If you fail to block it, then fail to dodge, then, and only then, do you actually get punched in the face.

You do not suffer an unsaved wound if you make FNP.