Hexrifle vs Feel no Pain!

[Asuryan]

FNP causes you to discount the unsaved wound. You don't have an unsaved wound after FNP. Just because you didn't save it, doesn't mean that you can't still ignore it. It's fairly simple logic.

Think of it this way. You're in a fight. Someone tries to punch you in the face. You can block it, and not get punched in the face. You just made your saving throw. If you fail to block it, now you have a chance to dodge it. If you dodge it, you didn't block it, but you still didn't get punched in the face. If you fail to block it, then fail to dodge, then, and only then, do you actually get punched in the face.

You do not suffer an unsaved wound if you make FNP.

first let me say I completely agree with you, but a better analogy would be instead of dodging, if you fail to block you do get hit but it only glances, or it didn't hurt, or you ignore it, which is a little more wordy but more at what happens with FNP.

This is also where a lot of the argument is coming from with the "unsaved wound" and FNP. Because they still got hit by the punch others think that they take the test before FNP, but said punch didn't do anything so why should anything trigger from it.

[Nabterayl]

I'm with DarkLink (and various others). According to me, the answer to #1 is yes, because you don't know whether you've suffered an unsaved wound or not until you've taken your FNP roll. The answer to #2 is no, because the characteristic test does not cause you to suffer a wound of any kind, and FNP requires a model to have suffered a wound and failed any applicable save.

[YorkNecromancer]

Except in this case it's more:

1. Shot hits, tears a gaping hole in the target. (recieves wound, fails save)
2. Target summons willpower, refuses to drop and carries on the fight. (target passes FnP test)
3. Target finds legs aren't working because they've turned into glass. (Hexrifle
4. Target lefts rifle, and tries to squeeze off a shot. Target fails, as target's finger is now glass.
5. Target looks around, desperate for help, tries to scream. Target fails. Target's vocal cords are now glass.
6. Target's entire body becomes crystalline.
7. Haemonculi coven has shiny new ashtray.

[DarkLink]

Metaphors and similies are only useful in how they reflect the function of the rules. That might be how it works in the fluff, but that's not necessarily how the actual rules function. Under the actual rules of the game, if you pass FNP (presuming you take FNP before the characteristic test), you do not suffer an unsaved wound, and thus the test is not triggered.

Now, I haven't said anything about whether FNP or the test comes first. That's a different issue. But if FNP comes first, and you pass FNP, you do not have to take a test.

[Joe TwoCrows]

Now, I haven't said anything about whether FNP or the test comes first. That's a different issue. But if FNP comes first, and you pass FNP, you do not have to take a test.

\
OK, so which is the 'proper' action after the unsaved wound: The FNP or the characteristic test? I'd normally expect FNP to be taken _immediately_ after the save, but I don't see that exact wording. That means if the order is wound, test, then FNP no longer applies (if test is failed), as opposed to wound, FNP, test, and FNP trumps test. Given FNP does not protect against ID type of attacks, I'd advocate the former, but I'm asking.

[daboarder]

\
OK, so which is the 'proper' action after the unsaved wound: The FNP or the characteristic test? I'd normally expect FNP to be taken _immediately_ after the save, but I don't see that exact wording. That means if the order is wound, test, then FNP no longer applies (if test is failed), as opposed to wound, FNP, test, and FNP trumps test. Given FNP does not protect against ID type of attacks, I'd advocate the former, but I'm asking.

Same as FNP and Force weapons USED TO BE!!, Player whose turn it is picks in accordance with the rules.

edit:

PS you CAN FNP perils.

[Joe TwoCrows]

Same as FNP and Force weapons USED TO BE!!, Player whose turn it is picks in accordance with the rules.

edit:

PS you CAN FNP perils.

If you don't mind, BRB reference please, but that's a fine answer for my taste. Thanks!

Yes, I understand FNP applies to perils, but that's about you surviving yourself, not attacking somebody else.

[Magpie]

FNP causes you to discount the unsaved wound. You don't have an unsaved wound after FNP. Just because you didn't save it, doesn't mean that you can't still ignore it. It's fairly simple logic.

Think of it this way. You're in a fight. Someone tries to punch you in the face. You can block it, and not get punched in the face. You just made your saving throw. If you fail to block it, now you have a chance to dodge it. If you dodge it, you didn't block it, but you still didn't get punched in the face. If you fail to block it, then fail to dodge, then, and only then, do you actually get punched in the face.

You do not suffer an unsaved wound if you make FNP.

Nice analogy but it highlights quite well the fallacy in your interpretation.

Dodge is itself a save, GK Assassins have it so on that basis FNP is not analogous to dodging.
Think of the things that give Feel No Pain, Apothecaries, Pain Tokens etc those sorts of things are an indication of an inflicted wound being masked somehow.

What it actually is that someone swings a punch at you and :
A: You are wearing a bike helmet - Armour Save
B: You dodge out of the way - Invulnerable Save
C: You hide behind a chair - Cover save

Now the punch misses the helmet and hits you in the throat, you don't dodge quick enough or the punch goes through the gaps in the chair,you have FAILED YOU SAVE

The punch hits you and breaks your nose.

A: You shout OMFG and fall to your knees - that hurt I FELT PAIN.
OR
B: You are so tough or high on drugs that you "FEEL NO PAIN" and simply fight on as if nothing has happened.

You still however have a broken nose.
The injury is unsaved because the one attempt you were allowed to make to save it failed.

As FNP is specifically noted as not being a save there is no possible way that the wound can "become" saved.

[Nabterayl]

Sure, because you think there's a difference between a wound that "is" saved and a wound that is "treated" as saved. I don't see the principled distinction you draw between the two, though. Consider:

A hexrifle says, "A model that suffers an unsaved wound from a hexrifle must take a characteristic test" etc. etc. You would say that a model that merely treats a wound as saved still has to take that test.

The basic rule for unsaved wounds (page 15) says, "If [the model] fails [its saving throw], reduce that model's Wounds by 1." You would say that a model that merely treats a wound as saved does not have to reduce its Wounds by 1.

What rule do you articulate that draws that distinction? Can you state it?

[daboarder]

If you don't mind, BRB reference please, but that's a fine answer for my taste. Thanks!

Yes, I understand FNP applies to perils, but that's about you surviving yourself, not attacking somebody else.

Here Pg9

At other times, you'll find that both
players will have to do something at the same time. When
these things happen, the player whose turn it is decides the
order in which the events occur

To the others.

FNP also states that the wound is ignored "as if it had been saved" given YEARS AND YEARS of precedent when GW says "as if" they mean for all intents and purposes.

FNP, if passed, trumps whatever trips off on an unsaved wound. Stop trying to BS it people.