Why no camouflage?

[imperialpower]

In my mind a space marine is not exactly what I would call stealthy in the first place so why bother concidering most people have the ability to hit somthing the size of a barn door anyway, but they are shock troops so bright colours makes sence like blue woad paint on ancient Britons as a real life example.

Any guard regiment that uses brightly coloured uniforms does so becuase they are awesome and that's what wins wars.

[Kevlarshark]

Marines do use camo to a limited extent... There are a number of Codex prescribed camo patterns, a few are mentioned in the Badab War books. The Howling Griffons wore black armour when fighting on a night world and Mantis Warriors went desert camo when they had to resort to hit and run tactics in the tranquility campaign. They are not frequently used however, Marines don't really fight the protracted wars where camo is necessary. They don't sneak up to the rebel commanders bunker and eliminate him quietly... They drop on him from space and then leave it for the imperial guard to sort out.

[Aramel]

I don't see how anyone can accuse Eldar of being "tactically unsophisticated commandos," when virtually everything we know about them points to the Craftworld Eldar fielding the most tactically sophisticated armies in the known universe. Most aspect warriors do not need camouflage, because they generally deploy out of Wave Serpents. These in turn are very fast and boast advanced holo-fields that make them very hard to track. Striking scorpions of course have suits that change colour to blend with terrain, swooping hawks are sky colour, warp spiders are constantly teleporting and shining spears are also extremely fast.

Added to that is the impressive technology that the Eldar have at their disposal, which typically make a mockery of their opponents' (Necrons being the only consistent exception) and the skill with which they use it. Their most powerful tactical asset however, is the ability to predict enemy movements with reliable accuracy by studying the skeins of fate, something which only Necrons seem able to disrupt. In terms of traditional camouflage, Outcasts wear cloaks that render them virtually invisible in any terrain, wraith constructs don't really need cover, or often are the cover. I think it's abundantly clear that Eldar armies are tactically superior in every deparent except for one critically important one: numbers. Which is why they no longer run the place.

As for camouflage in the 40k universe in general, we have to assume that technology has reached a point that simply painting your armour/vehicles a different colour is not going to matter when the enemy has computers (or magical machine spirits that are definitely not an AI) that can see right through it.

[Kaiserdean]

I remember reading some fluff somewhere that explained that the Imperial Fists wore bright yellow as a fear tactic. They want their enemies to know they are coming and hopefully cause fear among their opponents ranks.

[DarkLink]

Aramel, Kevlarshark, it's a huge mistake to assume that just because you're only outside the vehicle for short periods of time, that camouflage, cover, and concealment aren't realistically just as important as in other situations.

[Errandir]

Are we forgetting Raptors?

[url]http://images.wikia.com/warhammer40k/images/4/48/Raptors_Scout_Marine.jpg[/url]

[Ursa]

Ive been playing this game since Rogue Trader days and have always wondered this very question and the practicle answer is Marines look better on the table in bright flashy colors. Over the years I have painted nine space marine armies. One Flesh Traders, two space wolves, one all techmarines (that one had a couple of pics in WD), the rest home made chapters. Two of them I did in camo, one a tribute to the troops in gulf one with the chocolate chip desert camp. I currently have one of the space wolf armies and a gold army called Emperors Pryde (sub theme of Lions) . Ive painted and sold the other seven plus dozens of other armies and frankly the flashier the faster it sold.

So reason why no camo? Because people like flashy yellow or blue or dark green or black. Not camo.

The other reason could be its easier to find ones minis if they stand out from the Terrain.

[Cap'nSmurfs]

Because in the sort of futuristic scenario and tech-level most of 40k uses, conventional camouflage patterns are basically useless. If your enemy can pick you out with his heat-sensitive scanning equipment, his target designator mounted in a helmet, his psychic second-sight or whatever, then what the hell use is having a camo drab painted on your armour?

Camouflage is just one way of protecting a warrior or a war machine. If your armour is good enough (or your combat doctrine demands it), then camouflage isn't necessarily effective. For weaker, lighter troops and vehicles, it's there in lieu of armour. Furthermore, effective camouflage in a 40k context is stuff you can't see: countermeasures against the above systems, or things like the Eldar holo-fields or Tau baffling technology. Space Marines crash from the skies on wings of fire to engage in close-range firefights and punching matches, armoured as they are in suits of reinforced Future Materials as hardy as a tank. When they're fighting like that, camo is by the by.

The Imperial Guard is different. They're tiny, weak humans armoured in paper, they need all the help they can get.

On the other hand, chapters which practice different ways of fighting - like the Raven Guard - probably do camo themselves up. There's a great Horus Heresy short story (Little Horus) where the antihero gets ambushed by a camouflaged kill-team of White Scars. So it does happen. It's just not always their regular MO.

I feel like sometimes - I'm looking at you, 1d4chan crowd - people try and think about the Imperium and the setting too much in terms of real life combat doctrine. Yes, I know, in real life you camo up and hide behind a tree. But this isn't real life. This is the Grim Darkness of the Far Future. The rules are different!

[Nabterayl]

I feel like sometimes - I'm looking at you, 1d4chan crowd - people try and think about the Imperium and the setting too much in terms of real life combat doctrine. Yes, I know, in real life you camo up and hide behind a tree. But this isn't real life. This is the Grim Darkness of the Far Future. The rules are different!

I think it just comes down to different ways of consuming the product. Which parts of the universe are "core" will differ from consumer to consumer. Some people like deconstructing their favorite fictional universes. There's plenty of ways in which 40K is internally inconsistent, which makes it rich fodder for that kind of loving deconstructionism.

[Cap'nSmurfs]

Oh, I agree, and I have no problem with deconstruction, but there's also a lot of silly stuff masquerading as 'deconstruction'. But people can do whatever they like with it, that's the beauty of it.