Eldar wave serpents are great! What now?

[chicop76]

It's probably not enough information to talk about Eldar with just one battle against them, but I think some thoughts have occured which I think should be mentioned.

The serpents are really hard to kill, and can put out a decent amount of fire power. I would say it's easily the bst trasport in the game. With 2 necron transports as contenders. However the serpent has greater range and fire power over the barge and even railguns have a hard time dealing with a serpent due to greater cover and pen downgrades.

The problem I saw is this. You can't win with serpents alone. Well you can, but against a competetive build you will have issues. If you fire every thing you are very vulnerable, if you are too close you can be charge and assaulted to death. If you are too far you have to drop your shielding which makes you now vulnerable.

The best range is scatter/ s cannon range, and staying with that. However 3 s cannon shots is not enough to deal with +2 armour. One serpent is almost enough to kill 1 terminator. Also doing the math the most you can possibly run is 9.

The problem I saw with my game was I had enough fire power to down two a turn, while the return fire wasn't really all that devestating. Lack of ap is real hurtful.

Which means you need actual durable units to carry the day. If instead of fire dragons and dire avengers the eldar player had wraith guard I can see the game going the other way.

5 wraith guard is around 160 points and with a serpent it's hitting you for 300 points a pop. If you spam you can get 5 units for 1500 only leaving 350 for hq and heavy support. I will than say proably 2-3 units would be something. I'm a fan for a unit of d-sythes as well. You can easily drop off you army in front of the other player in turn 1. The problem is you will not be able to assault. Which means you need durable assault units.

Fortantely for you you can take a phonix lord and take him with the wraith guard. That will deter assaults into the unit and also give you a melee option.

You can use fire dragons, but being toughness 3 makes them rather easy to kill compared to a toughness of 6.

I think bikes wouldn't be a bad ideal since they can soft rend and not an easy kill, especially if a warlock gives them conceal.

I think cover denial is what is going to win games for eldar. If I had an aegis defense line it would had been even worst for the eldar player. Cover save denial and high ap weapons are needed to get the job down.

Also the deathspinner is rather good. I would reconmend at least two. Also I am not a fan of a wraithknight, but it comes off as an ideal overall heavy support. Not a fan of the Sun Knight configuration, but I can see it's use.

[Garradh]

It's a game of weight of fire whether to pop the shield-shot or not.

Also, you cannot drop off your army in front of the other player in turn 1. A transport can only move up to 6" and have its embarked squad dismount. Rushing across the board, taking your licks in his next shooting phase, and then dropping off your Wraithguard can work.

Fire Dragons are, indeed, easier to kill than Wraithguard. That's why they cost a helluva lot less.

It sounds like your opponent was putting way too much faith into rolling 6s to get that AP2 instead of investing in guaranteed good AP. Eldar have access to a lot of low-AP weapons, and with the points rebalancing in 6th Ed there's no excuse not to throw some into your army.

Like any one-trick pony, that trick only works until it doesn't. Spamming Wave Serpents is great against infantry and light vehicles. When some heavier vehicles shows up, that list is going to take a lot more brains (and some antitank weapons) to play.

[chicop76]

I meant in turn one you can serpent in front of your enemies face. It's doubtful your serpents will explode so when they are wreaked you now have los blocking cover and now out the vehicle is what I meant to say. The following turn you can shoot back.

Actually with two fire prisms I think he could had dealt with heavier vehicles. His problem was dealing with cover saves and heavy infantry units, and MC's. Gtg negated his rending completly, which also negated his prisms large blast and the barrage shots from his deathspinner. Cover saves really did carry the day, and the abiltiy to shoot back at normal balastic skill like imperial guard.

[rle68]

I meant in turn one you can serpent in front of your enemies face. It's doubtful your serpents will explode so when they are wreaked you now have los blocking cover and now out the vehicle is what I meant to say. The following turn you can shoot back.

Actually with two fire prisms I think he could had dealt with heavier vehicles. His problem was dealing with cover saves and heavy infantry units, and MC's. Gtg negated his rending completly, which also negated his prisms large blast and the barrage shots from his deathspinner. Cover saves really did carry the day, and the abiltiy to shoot back at normal balastic skill like imperial guard.

i ran a 3 wave serpent list in a tourney this sat and came in second 2 wins and a draw. they did fantastic.. 2 with wraith guards with bright lances 1 with fire dragons scatter lasers (might take the dragon out and do warp spiders.. not sure now)

the answer to your vehicle issue is war walkers.. scatter/ bright lance combo worked like a dream

[Lost Vyper]

Yep, WW´s (Scatter/Bright) is awesome! In the 5th i used to run Scatter/Scatter -versions, but now (although, more expensive) they have Battle Focus, Invl. save and BS4. Outflanking WW´s are just the thing to make your mechanized army opponent shed tears...or any opponent really...heavy slot is just too full, with Wraithknight and Fire Prism being good contenders...One solution is to take whatshisname from IA11 and run with 4 heavy choices...hmmm...3 x 3 WW´s plus a Wraithknight or a Fire Prism...should i try it tomorrow against Space Wolves?

[G00dySmiley]

pretty much all of the grav tanks are winners this edition, i have an upcomign tourny and plan to run 4x wave serpents with 5 dire avengers each in them 1 fire prism, 1 falcon a wraithknight and a solitarch alongside a crimson hunter exarch and a regular crimson hunter. everythign is fast, keep at least 24 incheas from units if possible and mass amoutns of str 6 shots from serpents. the pulse laser is underrated on the falcon with 2 str 8 ap2 likely twin linked due to a scatter laser, and then the versitility of a prism... and btw i put holo fields on everything fort that nice 4+ jink all around

[Dave Mcturk]

wave serpents are a vast improvement on last codex, but think ppl are overestimating their usefulness, most MEQ units can still close assault them to death ... and st3 troops are usually filler... and in 6th ... if you cant see it you cant shoot it, so sensible opponents facing serpentspam [wave serpent wave ?] .. will just hide !

by the time youve put holofields and the previously mentioned kitchen sink on the serpents they still pan out at 45pts + a shot, and will still go down to the odd lucky critical hit or any st4 close assault

[chicop76]

wave serpents are a vast improvement on last codex, but think ppl are overestimating their usefulness, most MEQ units can still close assault them to death ... and st3 troops are usually filler... and in 6th ... if you cant see it you cant shoot it, so sensible opponents facing serpentspam [wave serpent wave ?] .. will just hide !

by the time youve put holofields and the previously mentioned kitchen sink on the serpents they still pan out at 45pts + a shot, and will still go down to the odd lucky critical hit or any st4 close assault

I agree, but disagree. It's not easy to ssaul them if you really use them to the max. Heavy wave serpent armies tend to go for turn 5 contest and quick win, which Eldar pulls off rather well.

It's rather easy to stay outside of assault range, unless you're going against blood angels, or dark angels.

The issue is how many units the other side have that have really good assault manurvability. Like one fleshhund squad can be easily blasted away, 2 I have to do the math to see if Eldar can do that, I know my Tau can blast away two full squads. Even so I would probably be able to split my squads in two, or have one squad hit a serpent with them. Slaanech Seekers are differant which I would multi assault with them in a heart beat.

That's why I say now what. If you assault them are the units inside are actually threating, or a very easy second kill. Thinking about it more and playing against Eldar I think more variety is really needed instead of usingserpent spam to carry the day.