How to bring the fight back to 6th?

[Power Klawz]

I'm pretty sure that Orks and perhaps to a lesser extent nids will be made marginally more survivable when they get thir 6th edition 'dex as recompense for overwatch. I'm pretty sure orks will get universal 6+ fnp which should help a bit.

Its basically about giving them methods to get into combat before they're shot to pieces. This is why everyone cries bitter tears over Banshees, there's just no way to assault something without opening yourself up to a round of shooting and since they're somewhat fragile all it takes is a solid round of bolter fire to kick their teeth out. Of course this could largely be considered a matter of target priority and movement, and of course there are many ways around it but that's what people will fixate on, "I can't use this scalpel like a baseball bat, how will I hit home runs now?"

Orks are a baseball bat though, and as such there should ideally be precious little artistry to their usage. Run at the things that aren't green enough and krump some 'eds. They're all ready quite amazing at this as is mind you. Moderately high toughness, obscenely cheap, hit like a ton of green bricks if they make it, and fearless into the bargain until they're well under useful size anyways. They wear wife beaters for armor of course, but for 6 points a pop your defense is really body count not armor.

A 6+ fnp will give them that little edge they need to be better bulldozers in my opinion. Some niftier options would be rather swanky as well. Maybe different weapon options for nobz, different AP values on their h2h weapons (ap5 would be really nifty I think, maybe ap4 on the charge for choppas, might constitute a points increase though which would be less than favorable, especially when dealing with MEQ and TEQ.)

Not really sure why 'Ard Boyz are a 0-1 choice either, should just be an option. Maybe a new(old) unit like madboyz would be interesting. No ranged attacks and maybe rage to go along with their furious charge, or perhaps a more nuanced interaction with weirdboyz. Just spitballing really.

What premier assault armies need is either A. slightly greater survivability to compensate for overwatch or B. better deployment and movement options. Orks all ready have fast assault vehicles (they're made out of toilet paper though.) and not so fast assault vehicles that are made out of two-ply extra strong Charmin. Some more deep striking options for elite assault units is really all I'd want on that front. (tellyportin' meganobz thanxbai.)

[TSINI]

Well, that escalated quickly...

I've been reading through this, the title post was meant to be provocative for a yay or nay response to whether things needed changing or not and there are good (and excellent) points being made on both sides.

Realistically we aren't going to see changes to the core rules. But there will be "exciting" rules introduced in upcoming codices. The TAU have been given big assed guns and nifty overwatch skills. With the Eldar, they have been given an extra bite in their shooting, better accuracy, and a whole new scale of manoeuvrability.

So what's upcoming for the two classic horde assault armies I wonder?

I did read an interesting post about target saturation, the fact you can only take 6 troops does have an impact. 6 ten-man marine squads can break down into 12 five-man teams, which can deal with 6 units of massed hordes much more effectively than 6 squads can.

Maybe the guard platoon model will prove to be a winner for the hordes.

Just spitballing but what if tyranid grunts were just purchased as 1 large unit per type? then you were free to split them up into units how you pleased at deployment, minimum squad numbers for deployment could be enforced, and they could break coherency to form smaller units, or move into coherency to create larger squads and any unit that ends up lower than a certain number at the end of the turn is destroyed?

This would mean you could truly present your opponent with target saturation, and adapt your fighting force on the move, rather than setting up and 'going through the motions' of just charging forwards.

Orks could be similar.

This would be a good way to represent the disregard of "order" in these two armies. Clearly tyranids are just a scythed carpet of bodies, and orks don't really need to organise themselves into neat squads.

[Deadlift]

Orks I'm interested to see what happens there, GW seem to be taking what distinguishes an army and turning up the dial to 10 in 6th. Orks I have always seen as the green tide army, so many attacks and dice that when they hit your lines your just overwhelmed. Now I read a rumour which is obviously taken with a huge amount of salt that Ward was working on the Ork codex. That could be interesting to say the least.
My next projects going to be Ork based, most likely a Dreadmob. Competitive maybe not, but in combat it could be tasty.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

My Fire Warriors own Dreadnoughts in close combat, jus' sayin'.

Also, what the actual f is this thread? I just read it all and I can only assume that rle68 is challenged if he thinks Orks are a pushover.

+++CENSORED BY THE INQUISITION+++

[rle68]

my fire warriors own dreadnoughts in close combat, jus' sayin'.

Also, what the actual f is this thread? I just read it all and i can only assume that rle68 is challenged if he thinks orks are a pushover. Seriously dude, grow up, you're acting like a b*tch.

+++censored by the inquisition+++

[Bigred]

CUT IT OUT

Final warning. Further uncivil behavior will result in thread locking.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Anyway, I want to pit 30 Hormagaunts against 30 standard Boyz, that would be the punch up of the century.

[chicop76]

Anyway, I want to pit 30 Hormagaunts against 30 standard Boyz, that would be the punch up of the century.

The hormagaunts got to at least have invisibility on them and feel no pain to show what they more than likely will have.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Invisible Gaunts? O_O
Now I can't sleep.

[chicop76]

Invisible Gaunts? O_O
Now I can't sleep.

Tyranids have access to invisibility, so yeah they can easily do it with the amount of rolls they have. Only the swarmlord can castit sadly enough. Even still it will make them immune to over watch and counter charge, and lower ws to 1 with a +4 cover saver. Is that awesome or what.