How to bring the fight back to 6th?

[rle68]

Math hammer. 7 space marines. 14 attacks. 7 hits. 4 wounds. 4 dead Orks.

30 orks. 60 attacks. 30 hit. 15 wound. 5 dead marines.

Second round of combat. 2 marines. 4 attacks. 2 hit. 1 dead Ork.
26 Orks. 54 attacks. 27 hits. 14 wounds. 4 wounds on Wolves. All wolves dead.

for reg space marines yes not wolves try 27 attacks 9 of which are power weapons hitting on 3's and killing on 3's re calculate.. thanks for playing

add in your ork war boss and i add Ragnar i guarantee you 15 or more dead orks, more if i charge

[Mr Mystery]

Oh dear. Here we go again.....

Realistically, how many do you expect to job in the first round? All 30? Extremely unlikely. That's 7 models.

5 of them have 15 attacks on the charge. Of which, half will hit, half will wound. So around 6 wounds or so. Statistically, one Ork will save. CONGRATULATIONS! That's 30 points of Dead Orkses.

Then the two Wolfguard. Frost blade one is 38 points (again, reading comprehension dear chap. It's a useful tool!). 4 attacks. Half hit. 2/3rds wound. Lets be kind and have him bag 2 Orks. Awesome sauce! That's 42 whole points dropped already! Good going!

Next Wolfguard? Guess what, again being kind, 2 more dead Orks.

9 down. 21 hitting back (including my big hard Nob, fnarr!).

60 attacks from the Boyz. 30 hits. 10 wounds. 3,3333 recurring. Again, rounding up, 4 dead Wulufs. Leaving you with three.

Now, brace yourself! IT'S FISTING TIME! 4 attacks. 2 hits. Two Wulufs go squishy.

Yes. You won the combat. With your sole remaining bloke. Orks are fearless, as there's 21 of them. And that's with the Wulufs charging......

Orkses charging? It just gets messier. Likely as not, you'll still get counter attack, so your damage output is constant.

But....the Orks? 80 attacks from the Boyz....40 hits....16.666 (call it 17) wounds.....around 6 dead. Fist polishes you off. Space Wolves wiped out for frankly negligible losses.

And it gets worse when I apply a bit of Dakka before the charge.... I'd likely drop two Wolves from 30 Slugga shots, meaning even with Overwatch (which will, statistically do nowt) you do even less damage to me.

Is it likely all 30 will make a single charge? Hard to say. It's certainly more than possible. But equally, what's the odds your unit would see combat previously unscathed?

And you unit? Just used up three FOC slots....set you back 268 points. To drop 54 points worth of Boyz. Good job there skip! Fool the enemy by throwing yourselves on their blades!

Hold on....arsed up my maths. 25% of 15 clearly isn't 6. It's closer to 4....so you kill even less! 48 points jobbed. However will my army cope?

[rle68]

Oh dear. Here we go again.....

Realistically, how many do you expect to job in the first round? All 30? Extremely unlikely. That's 7 models.

5 of them have 15 attacks on the charge. Of which, half will hit, half will wound. So around 6 wounds or so. Statistically, one Ork will save. CONGRATULATIONS! That's 30 points of Dead Orkses.

Then the two Wolfguard. Frost blade one is 38 points (again, reading comprehension dear chap. It's a useful tool!). 4 attacks. Half hit. 2/3rds wound. Lets be kind and have him bag 2 Orks. Awesome sauce! That's 42 whole points dropped already! Good going!

Next Wolfguard? Guess what, again being kind, 2 more dead Orks.

9 down. 21 hitting back (including my big hard Nob, fnarr!).

60 attacks from the Boyz. 30 hits. 10 wounds. 3,3333 recurring. Again, rounding up, 4 dead Wulufs. Leaving you with three.

Now, brace yourself! IT'S FISTING TIME! 4 attacks. 2 hits. Two Wulufs go squishy.

Yes. You won the combat. With your sole remaining bloke. Orks are fearless, as there's 21 of them. And that's with the Wulufs charging......

Orkses charging? It just gets messier. Likely as not, you'll still get counter attack, so your damage output is constant.

But....the Orks? 80 attacks from the Boyz....40 hits....16.666 (call it 17) wounds.....around 6 dead. Fist polishes you off. Space Wolves wiped out for frankly negligible losses.

And it gets worse when I apply a bit of Dakka before the charge.... I'd likely drop two Wolves from 30 Slugga shots, meaning even with Overwatch (which will, statistically do nowt) you do even less damage to me.

Is it likely all 30 will make a single charge? Hard to say. It's certainly more than possible. But equally, what's the odds your unit would see combat previously unscathed?

And you unit? Just used up three FOC slots....set you back 268 points. To drop 54 points worth of Boyz. Good job there skip! Fool the enemy by throwing yourselves on their blades!

lets have you start reading comprehension and the fact you know zip about space wolves your math hammer is skewed and its wrong.. i love how you graciously give me wounds from POWER WEAPONS THAT KILL YOU you dont give me anything.. and you also factor out higher weapon skills and higher strength

all of which add in more than what you factor in.. you want a realistic number of what id plan to kill with that setup? minimum of 10 more like 15 i have done it too many times

go back home read the wolves codex and come back and try again cus your full of fail right now

ohh now you want to add dakka to your list ok ill add Ragnars war howl and take furious charge into combat where your math hammer fails yet again

i didnt bring up over watch at all i am talking straight up fight.. im sorry orks cannot hang with wolves

[DarkLink]

It is not that the assault phase is less effective now...its that the shooting phase has been made more effective.

It did get a little less effective. Multi-charges were severly nerfed since you don't get your bonus attack now. Assaulting via foot you gain about an inch of assault range both in and out of terrain, but you now have a significant chance of failing a 5-6" charge to go with it, and it's now basically impossible to avoid assaulting through terrain the way you could back in 5th. More importantly, assault ranges out of vehicles are significantly shorter now, and virtually all assault armies rely on transports to deliver the assault units to combat. The removal of No Retreat also makes it much easier for certain armies like Orks or 'nids to tarpit certain other armies.

in 5th i pulled off a perfectly executed multi assault with 15 grey hunters and Ragnar and wiped out over 3 squads of 60 plus orks in total in 1 turn... can it happen now... not sure dont think the multi assault transfer wounds and losses like it did

Anecdotal evidence is anecdotal. Also, you'd be relying on No Retreat to pull this off reliably. No Retreat doesn't exist anymore. Also, you can't fit 60 Orks in one squad. I assume you mean 60 Orks total, but that's not what you actually said. Words matter.

[G00dySmiley]

wolves also banner drop and reroll all ones even saves, so only 2's really fail the first time with ones rerolled for armor saves, so not enough hits calculated, not enough wounds to orks and not enough saves also if you play orks you know getting 30 to charge in and all get to swing is not an easy task, some will be left in the back unable to connect.. also the mark of the wolven that everybody takes

[rle68]

i did say 3 squads of 60 plus orks in total in 1 turn.. i did say that..

yes that was 5th rules are different now i am aware

[rle68]

wolves also banner drop and reroll all ones even saves, so only 2's really fail the first time with ones rerolled for armor saves, so not enough hits calculated, not enough wounds to orks and not enough saves also if you play orks you know getting 30 to charge in and all get to swing is not an easy task, some will be left in the back unable to connect.. also the mark of the wolven that everybody takes

thanks for pointing that out i forgot the mark and the banner.. mystery is like magpie with some of his silliness i forget sometimes

[Mr Mystery]

Got it on me knee right now skip.

And you're the one who only gave snacky weapons to the Wolf Guard.

Care to try again?

Tell you what, I'll grab my dicicles..... I love rolling dice me!

Battle Leader first. 3 attacks basic, two CCW make it 4, charge takes it to 5. 3 hits (rolled 1,2,4,4,6). 1 wound (1,2,4).

Wolf Guard? 2 basic, 2 CCW, charge...1 hit. (2,2,3,4). 1 dead.

Grey Hunters? 3 each! 9 hits.... 6 wounds...2 saved.

So 6 Orks down. 24 get to hit back.... Boyz go first. 23x3=69 DUDE!

35 hits....13 wounds....3+ squeaky bum time....6 Wulufs down.

Big 'ard Nob (fnarr)....4 attacks....3 hits.....3 wounds.

Pretty comprehensive yes?

[rle68]

Got it on me knee right now skip.

And you're the one who only gave snacky weapons to the Wolf Guard.

Care to try again?

Tell you what, I'll grab my dicicles..... I love rolling dice me!

Battle Leader first. 3 attacks basic, two CCW make it 4, charge takes it to 5. 3 hits (rolled 1,2,4,4,6). 1 wound (1,2,4).

Wolf Guard? 2 basic, 2 CCW, charge...1 hit. (2,2,3,4). 1 dead.

Grey Hunters? 3 each! 9 hits.... 6 wounds...2 saved.

So 6 Orks down. 24 get to hit back.... Boyz go first. 23x3=69 DUDE!

35 hits....13 wounds....3+ squeaky bum time....6 Wulufs down.

Big 'ard Nob (fnarr)....4 attacks....3 hits.....3 wounds.

Pretty comprehensive yes?

snacky weapons? what the hell is a snacky weapon?
i gave them frost blades making them strength 5 and kill you with wound not giving you save .. you dont get saves from power weapons cus last time i checked orks arent ap3 or 2 in that case

all you have shown there is one you lack at rolling dice and two all you did was math hammer your orks to the best possible outcome.. face it pal you lose on this one

get used to it.. it happens to all ork players

[chicop76]

Unless they are thundercalf I don't really see orcs lossin that badly vs wolves.

Orcs have a lot of attacks for a really cheap point cost with a nob with a powerfist. Although you would probably win in the challenge. Unless you assaulting them they will do some hurt.

Ok don't orcs have a +6 save. What would power weapons do. If you are saying to take power weapons against orc nob than I got my laugh for today. Power weapons wouldn't change much.

The 2d6 assault range is good for models with fleet. The re rolls easily get them above average assault ranges, although you can argue last edition that would had d6+6 anyway for an average of 9 which a run re roll would be about right to gettin 6 with re rolling with 2 dice.

Orcs are actually beter in assalt since they don't lose models to no retreat now. It's like a guard squad with re rollable stubborn. They can beat squads even if the lose combat due to numbers, 5 power axe weapons do help. I would love invisibility on a 50 man guard blob. They would really beat down most things.