Astartes Tactics

[DarkLink]

Now I have an image of a Black Templar screaming "YOU APES WANT TO LIVE FOREVER" and charging the enemy, then stopping in the middle of the field when he realizes all the guardsmen got gunned down. Then he shrugs and starts charging again.

[Sangre]

Space Marines aren't stupid. They know they have different limitations to humans and I'd imagine that while their commanders aren't themselves tutored in how to command humans, they pick it up quickly.

[Melissia]

THAT all depends on the Guard regiment and even the individual company and squads within the company. Some are much easier to influence than others, depending on the native culture of their planet, but in the end, the Guard is the most varied organization in the Imperium. Yes, that includes Marines.

[Sitnam]

it'll also probasbly depend on the chapter itself. A tactical, pragmatic chapter (Like maybe Ultramarines) would operate much different with Guard then a fanatical, zealous chapter ( Black Templars.)

[Duke]

Now I have an image of a Black Templar screaming "YOU APES WANT TO LIVE FOREVER" and charging the enemy, then stopping in the middle of the field when he realizes all the guardsmen got gunned down. Then he shrugs and starts charging again.

I had that same image the whole time we have had this discussion... That cracks me up so much (especially the shrug part!)

Duke

[DarkLink]

Really, it's the greatest weakness I think a SM leader would have in such a command situation. If he wasn't careful, he'd be like "ok, you two take that bunker, I'll take this one", only to find out that Guard aren't quite the assault specialists Marines are, and have to take both bunkers himself.

[Morgrim]

I'm not sure most standard marines, even squad or company leaders, would be that good at the larger strokes of command of a mixed force. They may be good at 'ok, we need to take that particular section, this is probably the best way to go about it', but that is more 'loan-some-guard' for a single mission.

However, I think Dante effectively running a campain is entirely feasable. The chapter master is used to coordinating marines groups working across multiple battle zones, adjusting numbers and priorities based on changing conditions, assigning who gets what ships in their fleet and making sure that each group has the supplies that they'll need (although the last bit of logistics may be delegated and he just gets the reports). These are the sort of skills most marines don't need, but that generals do. And a very experienced chapter master has the experience and training to pull it off.

There is also the fact that other marines are going to listen to an experienced chapter master, particularly of a first founding legion, while they may not listen to a 'mere human'. I think this would stand even if they were from a different chapter. Considering the number and variety of space marines helping shore up the guardsmen on Armageddon, asking Dante to take command makes sense. I still feel this was an unusual situation, though.

[DarkLink]

Yeah, the fluff is pretty supportive of Marine Captains and Chapter Masters leading very large forces on occasion, beyond the scope of just their Companies and/or Chapters.

[Nabterayl]

Actually, could we collate the circumstances in which that happened? Armageddon, obviously, but Armageddon was also a weird situation, where the ordinary chain of command had broken down. And it just occurred to me - have we seen any crusades led by space marines? I don't mean Black Templar-style we're-always-on-crusade crusades; I mean targeted, large-scale efforts to conquer or re-conquer a specific swath of worlds, like the Damocles Crusade or the Sabbat Worlds Crusade or Macharian's crusade.

[Melissia]

Astartes might take over temporarily if a warmaster is killed (but not as an actual warmaster AFAIK), and certainly a warmaster will listen to their advice (But ONLY as advice-- a warmaster orders the Astartes, not the other way around) when it is offered, but warmasters are generally human.


Keep in mind that having an Astartes as a warmaster brings up VERY bad memories.