New Apoc Terrain/Fortifications Rules - Questions

[Gir]

As an aside, I've just noticed: I can't find the entry for the Vengeance Weapons Batteries in my Apocalypse book (I have the iPad version). Any idea where they are?

In the box. There's no special apoc rules for them.

[Cap'nSmurfs]

Okeydoke, thanks. The GW website entry suggested otherwise. Given they're just standard 40k guns on a platform, that makes sense. Cheers!

[Mr Mystery]

Yeah, thats it. There are no stupid questions just stupid people.

I would like to know how you would handle it. If someone showed up to an Apocalypse game and wanted to purchase either of those two formations how would you respond? Would you tell them he can't purchase 3 of the items listed because they're terrain even though they're plainly listed as options? Would you let them have as many as they want because no point value means free? You haven't even addressed the question.

Honestly how would you solve it. Would you let a guy spam the board with free terrain that was purchased for 0 points? Or tell him the book is wrong and he can't have them?

LOL...if they can't be purchased why are they listed on these formation charts if they aren't something you can buy? So there just free and take all you want? Have you even bothered to look at them. You're either an idiot or just ignorant. Explain those formations to me. You buy some items and get the rest for free. Please take note they are using the plural tenses implying more than one right. You realize 0+ and 1+ means 0 to whatever and 1 to whatever right. Ignore list...blaahahaha what do I care.

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I'd say he couldn't purchase them for the same reason I can't purchase the Evening Standard on my commute home each evening. Why? Both are examples of something free. Really not sure where you're struggling with this.

However, he can field as much as he likes, as per the formation.

[Magpie]

I would like to know how you would handle it. If someone showed up to an Apocalypse game and wanted to purchase either of those two formations how would you respond? Would you tell them he can't purchase 3 of the items listed because they're terrain even though they're plainly listed as options? Would you let them have as many as they want because no point value means free? You haven't even addressed the question.

Mate honestly there isn't an issue.

Pages 90 to 107 in the rulebook cover a myriad of different terrain with a series of rules to cover them. There aren't any points mentioned either.

Page 120 details how you go about setting up your terrain, Narrative or Alternating.

The formations in the Apoc seem to be guidelines for a narrative set up (I haven't read the book), so there really isn't a need for point costs for the individual items. The items that are going to have an offensive impact on the game, i.e. the ones that shoot have points but the rest of it are simply terrain just like any other.

[Cap'nSmurfs]

It's made fairly clear in the Apocalypse book that points aren't important, except as a guideline (or unless you want to insist on playing to points totals). What they recommend is that if one side ends up with more points, to balance it out with extra Strategic Assets for their opponents.

All the Formations have a points total, but they're not really important in Apocalypse anymore.

Magpie, it is slightly different in the case of the Formations he's talking about, because you're taking terrain pieces as part of the Formation (the Wall of Martyrs stuff to be precise). The Formation is made up of a mix of Fortifications, which have a points cost, and Wall of Martyrs pieces, which don't. The cost of the whole thing is made up by adding up all the Fortifications which have a points value, plus as many as you like of the free pieces.

In answer to the question Black(numbersf) asked, I'd let them have as many as they liked. That's how the Formation works.

[rpricew]

Since there isn't a points value listed for the WoM pieces, then their "value" would be determined by the gaming group playing with them. In Black1705f's example, his group plays with mostly infantry, where the WoM pieces would make a significant difference to the survivability of the army manning them?

There are a couple of things to consider first:

- First, how many pieces is the regular joe going to purchase of the WoM set? Those things aren't cheap and if someone wants to buy, build and paint that MANY of them to bring to Apoc, then why not let them.

- Second, how would they impact the game for the rest of the players? If it's an all infantry based game and they are going to significantly improve the survivability of the army fielding them, then why not simply agree on a point value form them (or let your opponent take an appropriate amount of strategic assets to offset)?

Also, how are the WoM being allocated? Is it one person that's purchasing a Formation from Apoc and the WoM pieces are included, or is it part of the terrain that's already on the board? Both of those things effectively determine what something's value is.

@ Black1705f - it really just comes down to you talking it out with the people who you play with... I mean really, since there isn't a point value associated with it you only have two options:
1. Assign one and pay the points your group comes up with
2. or don't and just play it as terrain and build a narrative around it that everyone who's playing agrees on.

But I would like to know one question please... are you planning on buying, building, painting & using this formation/terrain for your side/army or are you afraid that someone is going to use it against you?

[Haighus]

Does Terrain placement and terrain density work the same way in apocalypse as standard 40k? If yes, then filling up your table edge with trenchlines means that there will be no other terrain on your side of the board, whereas the opposite side of the board can have a much greater variety of terrain, including LOS blocking terrain and so on. So it sort of cancels out anyway, assuming your gaming group has enough terrain to match your enormous trenchline.

[Kaika87]

Forgive me if this was buried somewhere in the wall of martyrs discussion that happened, I only skimmed through that, but can anyone tell me whether or not the Vengeance battery can be manned? The description in the first post seems to imply that it's possible to have it crewed, but I can't tell because of the fact that it lists no access or fire points. So can my bro just stand behind it and shoot away, quad-gun style?

[Haighus]

Also going back to the actual rules, is the Firestorm redoubt actually just one fire point, or is it fire points as per model like every other fortification building so far? If it is 1 fire point, then I probably wont bother getting it, because I can't modify it to have more fire points and be a useful bunker to stick things inside.

[DrLove42]

I think its a garrisonable bunker, that happens to have 2 weapons mounted on top