Games Workshop v Chapterhouse Studios - Post Trial Events

[eldargal]

If only it were that simple, sadly it nearly always spills over into other topics where it shouldn't be.

[Psychosplodge]

Plus it's like picking a scab, you can't not do it as much as you should know better...

[Caitsidhe]

I actually find it pretty interesting, although I agree it needs to stay in threads that are clearly marked so those that don't want to read about it can skip.

[lattd]

Am i the only one finding it hilarious that the chapterhouse witnesses admitted that they have no clue about this subject so cannot be experts but the judge let them enter anyway? Really interesting seeing the differences between English courts and US courts. Such bias and unnecessary costs for the rather pointless experts would not have been allowed in England. Note in england the experts have to show the court the instructions they have received.

[weeble1000]

Hold on...I asked about the appeals process in the previous thread, and was given the impression (which to be fair, could stem from me being a bit thick at times) that whilst both parties have the right to appeal, the affect would be negligible?

Who gave you that impression?

Motion for summary judgment is done pre-trial.

Motion for judgment as a matter of law is done during trial.

Renewed motion for Judgment as a matter of law is done post trial.

These are renewed motions for JMOL and motions for a new trial. Both parties moved for JMOL and in the alternative a new trial.

Only after the Court enters final judgment, having ruled on the parties JMOL motions, will the parties then have (I believe) 30 days to file a notice of appeal. That's the process under the US Federal Rules of Civil Procedure.

If the parties appeal, that's a whole other ball game. It will go to the Seventh Circuit Court of Appeals.

Now, as an aside, the Court just referred the parties to Magistrate Judge Gilbert for the purpose of settlement.

"Pursuant to Local Rule 72.1, this case is hereby referred to the calendar of Honorable Jeffrey T. Gilbert for the purpose of holding proceedings related to: settlement conference on post judgment matters.(pjg, )Mailed notice. (Entered: 07/16/2013)"

Judge Gilbert is the guy who handled settlement previously and who told Games Workshop:

THE COURT: And so let's say for the sake of argument
and only for the sake of argument and not as any finding or
anything else that for at least some of your items you're
going to be able to show they're substantially similar and
you're going to be able to put together whatever
circumstantial or even direct evidence in terms of the types
of things you're asking for from the defendant of copying,
okay? And for others it's going to be a little bit dicier.
You're not going to be able to show that they're that similar
and you're not going to be able to -- and maybe the defendant
is going to be able to articulate from whatever diaries he has
or whatever that he came up with the Shakespeare sonnet pretty
much on his own and it's going to be a bit of a reach.
But let say you're going to win on some of this stuff
after you go through all your discovery. What then? If Games
Workshop Limited's goal is to put Chapterhouse Studios out of
business, a death knell, cease and desist, go away, die, and
pay us whatever you can of our attorneys' fees, then you're
right, there is no basis to sit down and settle this case.
However, if you would like to work out some agreement
with Chapterhouse Studios, and I haven't yet heard whether
Chapterhouse is willing to do that, short of "We'll go away
roll up and die," but that allows both of you to go on and
attempt to continue to operate in the areas, the space that
you're operating in in some way without one or the other
having to give up, in the world I live that's called a
settlement, right?

and

- and I'll add in also I would bet with 97 or however
many works we are talking about here that defendant is going
to win some too.
So defendant is going to get some ruling someplace from
Judge Kennelly if this goes all the way through that you don't
have any protectable interest in certain of your works. You
know, there may be some figures, there may be some other
things if you get into a battle on this, that lo and behold
Chapterhouse, which has a profitable business on this, there
is going to be a ruling on the record public in federal
district court in Chicago that you don't have rights to
certain things that you're now asserting rights in.
So let's assume that all that goes down. But with
respect to the things that you win on, what do you want? Do
you want Chapterhouse to cease and desist production of those
items, period? Would you be satisfied if Chapterhouse owned
by a fan paid you a royalty of some, or your client a royalty
of some amount in order to do that or some other type of
relief that you could negotiate with them now? Or is the only
way [Games Workshop] is satisfied here is it proves its case, it
wins, and it puts Chapterhouse out of business.

and

I think it
would be a shame for both sides here, one side is paying their
lawyers, one side is doing it for free, but it seems to me
both sides have risk in the litigation and it can be an
extremely expensive litigation...

I mean, I will tell you I had a trademark case last, a
couple weeks ago, maybe a month ago now, that was very -- it
was also a zero sum game, it was very hotly fought. The
principals came in, the settlement discussion for hours was
very hot, but in sitting with both parties I learned that the
principals really had a lot of animosity against each other
because of some prelitigation telephone calls that were had
and things that were said on those calls.
And one of the principals took it upon himself to say to
the other principal, "I'm sorry. I'm sorry about how I
reacted when we had a phone call. I'm sorry for saying that I
was going to bury you, that I was going to put you out of
business, that this was going to cost you too much and you
could not fight us. And I have respect for your business,
your plan, your model and I would like to try and resolve
this." The case got resolved.

Now, before you ask, yes, the parties can come to a settlement even after a jury verdict. In fact, that is pretty typical. This is because there's a whole range of issues that are still floating around, not the least of which is the potential for one or both parties to appeal.

[weeble1000]

If only it were that simple, sadly it nearly always spills over into other topics where it shouldn't be.

And whose fault is that? I'm not suggesting it is yours, of course, but if people can't manage to stay on topic themselves, that is where the moderators should step in.

[eldargal]

Yes, it just gets incredibly tedious. Both sides tend to be extremely partisan and most know nothing about how the legal system works so it's just lots of angry nonsense everywhere. My issue isn't with this topic but with the ongoing issue in general and the impact on the community.

[weeble1000]

Am i the only one finding it hilarious that the chapterhouse witnesses admitted that they have no clue about this subject so cannot be experts but the judge let them enter anyway? Really interesting seeing the differences between English courts and US courts. Such bias and unnecessary costs for the rather pointless experts would not have been allowed in England. Note in england the experts have to show the court the instructions they have received.

Actually, Judge Kennelly largely considered opinions about copyrights to be within the scope of lay opinion, which is why Mr. Merrett was allowed to testify about things like substantial similarity.

It would do you well to actually read the documents and familiarize yourself with the proceedings if you are going to criticize them so strongly. There seems to be plenty to criticize, as many individuals have made some very informed criticisms of the proceedings, but such uninformed criticism is hyperbolic at best and largely not constructive.

[weeble1000]

Yes, it just gets incredibly tedious. Both sides tend to be extremely partisan and most know nothing about how the legal system works so it's just lots of angry nonsense everywhere. My issue isn't with this topic but with the ongoing issue in general and the impact on the community.

I think the discussion of this case has been of immense benefit to the community, and plenty of people have been able to maintain very long, very informed, and very constructive discussion about the case which has, I think, led to a substantial increase in the familiarity community members have with copyright and trademark law. In an art-intensive and art-driven hobby and industry like this, a more informed understanding of important legal issues is a good thing.

And as an aside, you are doing pretty much exactly what you are criticizing; dragging the discussion off topic and focusing on irrelevant vitriol rather than a discussion of the actual topic.

[eldargal]

Not really, no, hardly anyone actually pays any attention to the facts and just stick with their partisan opinions. A few people paying attention is nice and all but don't kid yourself into thinking the community as a whole cares about learning, 40% want to b!tch about GW and 40% want to b!tch about CHS and they will find an excuse to do that no matter what reasoned arguments you put forward.

I thought you just said the effect on the community was important, now it's vitriol? Also to be accurate I was being critical of the partisan rantings, which is not what I am engaging in. Regardless I'm not going to post anymore, I really don't give a **** what people think about CHS vs GW anymore.

Edit: Yes, I'm cranky, it's nothing personal.

P.S. Weeble, clear your PM inbox.