Is there something about 40K that makes everyone so hateful?

[Wildeybeast]

It seems a number of forum regulars have decamped down here of late and after having a look through the rage fest that is the 40K Space Marine rumours thread, I can see why. EG only put it up yesterday and there are already multiple instances of people raging about complete speculation, telling people to shut up and everyone just being generally unpleasant to each other. Sadly, this sort of behaviour seems all too common in the 40K thread. By contrast the Warhammer section is very civilised and by and large so is the Oubliette. Now it could just be due to the number of people in the 40K section (more people=more chance of arseholes & disagreements) but I can't help but wonder if there is something about the nature of 40K as a game, or more specifically the type of people who play it, that produces such hate. Do those of you who venture to other forums (traitors!) see similar behaviour in 40K threads there? Perhaps if we can get to the root cause of the hate, we can do something to address it and make the 40K section a more welcoming place.

[eldargal]

There does seem to be a radical increase in the amount of obnoxiousness sloshing around about 40k, the ridiculously hostile denial of Jervis Johnson's statement that all armies will get an update for example, in addition to what you cite.

[Wildeybeast]

I know you venture to other forums, is it the same there?

A cause could be the changes in 40K unsettling people, but I don't recall anywhere near this level of animosity over the 8th Ed. update of Warhammer (though that may just be my personal bias).

[eldargal]

Pretty much. Some very silly complaints from CSM players on Warseer example, conflating First Founding Chapter rules with Legion rules and whining about how SM get what CSM players wanted and whatnot.

It could be, getting back to the question which I forgot to address, that the sci-fi setting appeals to younger players more than WFB so there are more immature attitudes in the mix (I am in no way supporting the snobbish claims that WFB is for mature players and 40k is for kids, that's offensively stupid in my opinion). Or it could be because there are more 40k fans on BoLS there is a higher chance or feckwits.

I think it is really sad as I just had a hobby epiphany last night. I was flicking through the latest two issues of WD again and saw some of the Apocalypse art with Ig defending themselves against whoever it was and it just hit me; I really, really love the 40k setting. I might get a bit cranky about GW fudging the rules or FW screwing over eldar (again) but the setting and hobby are just wonderful.

[YorkNecromancer]

I think there's a number of factors.

Firstly, the internet is not an ideal medium of communication. You have to pick your words and structure your sentences so much more carefully than in normal speech, and even then you can be misinterpreted.

There's also the issue of ages - you have no idea if the person posting is eleven or fifty, and so you tend to treat everyone about whom you know nothing about in the same way you would a peer of your own age. This can make things awkward, especially given the number of young people involved in the hobby.

There's also the fact that these forums do tend to slant younger, and teenagers tend to be a lot more passionate about the things they are into, firstly because they lack the life experience to have distance from them, and secondly because hormones make you completely insane.

You've also got the issue that wargaming is a geek hobby, and geeks have a tendency to feel entitled to things, a sense that because they have invested so much time in a hobby, that the hobby owes them.

This is before we even get into the struggles for dominance that tend to infest every level of the internet everywhere. There's also the online disinhibition effect (the G.I.F.T) which naturally skews discussions to a more aggressive level - it's less prevelant here than elsewhere, but it still has its effect.

As for places like the Oubliette being "calmer", I think it's just the social grouping you see. I frequent the internet because there are people here with radically different opinions to myself and I like to test my beliefs and be intellectually challenged (hence the inordinate number of threads I contribute to where things get heated - I don't get that intensity of debate anywhere, and it's something I think BoLS is really good at actually - people will discuss and argue, but it very rarely gets personal, and if it does, people are quick to apologise). As well as this, there's the fact there are some people here whose opinions and responses I hold in high regard - arguments tend to include a spectrum of opinions. There seems to be somewhat more maturity here, as the people who come here tend to be those more dedicated to forum, and so tend to have more invested in "good behaviour".

TL;DR - I don't think there's a problem with 40K. I think there's a problem with people who don't have enough emotionally invested in the forums to avoid pooping on their own doorstep.

[Wildeybeast]

See, I agree with all those points, but my issue is that you simply don't get the sort of behaviour in the Warhammer forum as you get in the 40K one. The Oubliette has some very passionate and heated debates, but it usually stays civilised and rarely descends into the level of immaturity you see in 40K. It has also become more prominent of late. It could just be, as we have mentioned more people= more rage or the greater prevalence of hormonal teenagers, but I can't help but feel that maybe there is something about the nature of 40K. I'm probably reading too much into it, but could it seems rather simplistic to say that fantasy players are generally more mature and so behave better.

[Rev. Tiberius Jackhammer]

A fair bit of the grumpiness seems to be when two opposing personalities rub each other the wrong way - perhaps the greater amount of traffic allows for more such reactions. (Yes I do apply basic rules of chemistry to group dynamics shush.)

[jgebi]

I'm not overly aggressive *puts down bolter (nothing like a clean bolter)* OH **** IT *grabs bolter, loads mag* high ho of to war I go. ok joke aside I do find the setting almost encourages fanatics (I am one) and our right war but this being said most people who play are ******* and properly have never punched someone let alone been in a real fight now this I am bias on as I'm rather ruff ... I think I'm just ranting now... I think it dose just come with the hobby and the large amount of visitors on the forums, but also you do have older people who've been playing the 2 years or so and tend to look down on us noobs and that's where I can see rage coming from also and I don't mean to offend but it is normally the same people raging, don't believe me go look I was surprised my self. and Warhammer is less gritty tooth and nail and more 5 star general playing golf in his office (just my view)

I don't even know if I got to the point of what I was trying to explin but who cares I've got heretics to punch out. So have a nice day and give em hell

[Build]

I think it comes to a point regardless of which side of the fence you sit (even if you're dead center) that you figure the flames and moaning is not even worth reading, it just serves to sap your enthusiasm for the hobby and you end up not enjoying any of it.

[Mr Mystery]

It has gone down hill a bit in 40k section recently.

Take Orksorksorks, and that other guy who went off on one at me and got banned. Just really confrontational, and for no good reason. Disagreeing with an opinion is fine, but the hostility they displayed was weird.

Where they're coming from, I don't know. I really like BoLs, as it's general atmosphere is much better than other sites. Not gonna name names though, as I don't think that will be at all conducive to this conversation.