"Wishlisting" for future Chaos legion supplements

[Cactus]

I often hear people wishing that Chaos had more rules...

We probably just need to go back to an entire box set for Chaos players so they can have enough tokens, cards and charts.

[The Sovereign]

For the Thousand Sons, it's fairly obvious what the minidex should include:

- Inferno bolts and a Soulblaze upgrade for terminators. They should probably also have Slow and Purposeful and Fearless to bring them in line with Rubric Marines and for balance purposes, as much as I hate what it will do to their Overwatch.
- A sorcerers' coven unit of maybe 3-5 aspiring sorcerers, with some sort of Brotherhood of Sorcerers style power similar to pink horrors in that it is dependent on the number of models/warp charges in the unit. This would make a useful and flavorful entourage for Ahriman or a sorcerer HQ.
- A weapon or witchfire attack like the the Daemons' Mutating Warpblade, which has a high probability of turning enemies into spawn.
- Include the giant spawn from Forge World! (Okay, not gonna happen.)

[Power Klawz]

Thousand sons with Rubric terminators would be amazing, especially with some new chaos termy sculpts to go along with the 'dex.

Chaos Lord that can purchase pysker levels also would be pretty tasty. Given that the Sons don't really have any members left who aren't either automatons or psykers it should probably be mandatory to have at least 1 mastery level for all Thousand Sons characters.

Although after a certain point you start running out of ideas for Thousand Sons. They're basically just wizards and robots, you'd have to expand on that and introduce new types of wizards and robots. Maybe create an expanded Rubricae special rule and apply it to all non-psyker unit choices in the Thousand Sons supplement. Rubric Raptors, Rubric Havocs, Rubric Basic Marines. All the sergeants would have to be replaced with Sorcerers. It would be an entire force with 4+ invulnerables, it would probably be outnumbered by Grey Knights ha ha.

Obviously World Eaters need Juggernaut cavalry. This is non-negotiable.

Emperor's Children would of course have expanded access to noise weapons for characters and terminators. Maybe army wide access.

Death Guard. Hmm. Well in a lot of ways I felt that Standard CSM codex released for 6th was all Nurgle all the way, its hard to imagine anything more that Nurglites would need that's not in the standard dex. Mono-nurgle is, in my opinion, the most competitive mono-build CSM list right now. Other than perhaps some wacky new wargear I can't really come up with anything. Maybe plague zombies as troops without having to use Typhus? That'd be neato. Of course you could just go full retard and create something like Plague Drone Marine cavalry, but lets not go there right now.

Batman Legion would probably be the most radical departure from standard I can think of, besides Alpha legion which should probably be an Imperial Marine supplement because we all know they're actually just deep cover double agents... but anyways.

Remove marks, add in something equivalent like army-wide fear or special deep strike rules. Make everyone crazy, fearless and/or just some new rule that indicates how bat**** bonkers they all are.

[phreakachu]

I think the Cult Legios should have a version of Marks for their vehicles. a reward for those who put the time and effort into REALLY making those war machines slide into their army, beyond the Marks in the Vehicle sprue. Granted, the rule would work best with dual versions for Walkers and tanks. The Infantry makrs would work well with some tweaking for the walkers

ie: Khorne Walkers get Rage and Counter Attack, Tanks with Destroyer Blades deal an additional d6 with Destroyer Blades
Nurgle Walkers get +1 Armor on all facings, Tanks +1 Hull Point
Slaanesh walkers recieve +1I, Tanks with Dirge Casters cause d3 S4/AP5 hits to all non Slanesh units within 6", in addition to preventing overwatch
Tzeench Walkers would gain a 5+ invuln, Tanks with Heavy Bolters, Combi Bolters would get AP3


But what about my Legions that dont follow a specific God? Have More Devotion

I like the Alpha Legion having all sorts of infiltrating units. A unit that acts like the old Calliudus Assassin, starting in a unit, striking on a reserves roll would be appropiate (Fluffy, like brainwashing a SM Chapters source for recruits). No Marks, and Imperium armies as Weak Allies.
By all means, give the IW their Bassies back. Make their Warsmiths mean something. Imperial Fists and Successor Chapters should get Hatred: Iron Warriors. NO Marks, Tougher Fortifications/an ability that gives them +1AP vs Fortifications
Night Lords should get Raptor Troops, no marks, Fear. A Deep Strike ability that allows for Assaults or ignoring coverfor a round (ambushesand the like)
Word Bearers should get a Pantheon of Chaos mark that could work like TSKNF, more/better Apostles.. Maybe Apostles as an upgrade, or 1-5 as an Elites Unit. and Ultrasmurfs get Hatred: Word Bearers

Id like to see characters written up for each of the legions, maybe not models but just rules. I LOVE seeing a good conversion piece. of course new Warlord Traits, Relics, ect. New Kits should be ignored, but i think Upgrade kits Should be a standard for ALL Suppliment Dexes. Like the Crimson Fist Upgrade Pack: A few Different Helmets, Pads Enough for a whole unit, SPecial Weapons for the Champ.
I'd honestly buy some newer upgrade kits.

[Demonicsarge55]

Cant we just get the Lords, sorcs, havocs and well everything in power and terminator armor to be cult if you buy the mark and VOTLW. Like nurgle gets FNP, -1 I and blight grenades, Khorne gets Furious charge and +1 WS, Slaanesh gets the ability to get sonic weapons on everything, and Tzeench to get SaP, AP3 bolters, soul blaze and mastery level one on everything thats not rubric.

[Daemonette666]

So with the Black legion codex on it's way and according to some rumours just a minor change in FOC it got me thinking about the other 8 Chaos legions and what slight changes they could get in the FOC to make them more representable in terms of fluff. I'm not a fluff buff (oh hey, that rhymes) so I just know some basics on most legions.

A minor thing I would like to add in this kind of "wish listing"; only models from the current GW Chaos space marines range. So Termies to troops might be fine. Asking for a totally new unit is not... because I doubt GW will put out new kits for supplemental codexes (for now).

Some might remember Chaos codex 3.5 where you could play any legion and it moved around the FOC a bit (Iron warriors with 4 heavy support and only 2 Fast attack)

Khorne; Cult marines both in Elite as well as Troops. Mandatory marks on cultists (if cultists are even an option). Maybe have Chosen cult marines.
Slaanesh; See Khorne
Nurgle; See Khorne
Tzeentch; See Khorne
Word Bearers; Dark Apostle as upgrade for Cultists. Or have Apostles as Elite choices. Fearless or Ld 10 Cultists mobs.. yikes.
Night lords; Raptors as troops? Bikes as troops?
Iron Warriors; I could say "More Obliterators"... not sure if that's the best idea, lol. Maybe move Havocs to Elite to make it more of a siege army with heavy weapons.
Alpha legion; Infiltrating cultists? Infiltrating marines?

I think you are on the right track.

My ideas to add to your thoughts:

All Legion troops except cultists and Chaos Spawn get Veterans of the Long War for free.

Emperor's Children - Noise weapons on tanks and walkers. Limit their Daemon allies to Slaanesh Daemons, or restrict Khorne Daemons form being able to be used. Change Sonic Blasters back to Assault 2/Heavy 3, but add the ignores cover rule to it. Lose the pinning rule if you think it is too much, but make the upgrade 5 points per sonic blaster (2 points more expensive). Noise Marines are both Elite and troops. Can not use Berserkers, Plague Marines or 1000 Sons.

Khorne/ World Eaters: the whole army gets furious charge, counter attack, the same thing with the use of daemons, and and the ability for Possessed, Mutilators, etc to get Landraiders as dedicated transports as Khorne needs more assault transports. Either that or add in a new open topped fast transport, or a cheaper lower AV fast "assault vehicle" tank that gets dirge casters as standard. Berserkers are both Elite and troops. Can not use Noise Marines, Plague Marines or 1000 sons.

Nurgle/ Death Guard - The whole army gets FNP, and +1 toughness, as well as assault and defensive grenades. Also the thing about Daemons mentioned before. Plague Marines are both elite and troops. Can not use Berserkers, Noise Mrines, or 1000 sons.

Tzeentch/1000 sons - Havoc Squads, etc in fact all the models have a 5+ invul save, or better depending on whether they are cultists, cult warriors 4+, or sorcerers 3+ invul saves. Sorcerers get a bonus to deny the witch rolls, and all their ranged weapons have the soul fire rule. Give 1000 sons cult troops (slightly more expensive) the old rule where their bolters were AP 3. 1000 sons are both troops and elites. Can not use Noise Marines, berserkers or Plague Marines.

Iron Warriors: Obliterators can be taken as both Heavy Support and Elites choices. Also they can take one artillery vehicle squadron per Primary detachment from the appropriate IG codex as if it were theirs. They have to take a Warp Smith as their HQ/warlord, but he has the Base stats of a Chaos Lord. Their Rhinos repair on a 5+, and they can get a warlord trait where once per game, units within 12" of the warlord get the twin linked rule for all projectile based weapons yes missile launchers, autocannons, bolters, etc.

Alpha Legion I agree totally, but add the scout rule and shrouded to the list.

Word Bearers - agree, but just make all the troops fearless, as the Dark Apostle whips them into a frenzy before battle.

Night Lords, spot on, but a they need to have infiltrate/scout, and get night vision rule. Also give the marines, not necessarily the cultists, the fear rule.

As to the Black Legion, they are the Chaos Equivalent of Ultra Smurfs in regards to their abilities/ blandness.

[mysterex]

Night lords; Raptors as troops? Bikes as troops?

I've been re-reading my Night Lords novels (Lord of Night by Spurrier and the series and heresy stuff by Dembski-Bowden) at it seems that the preferred combat style for Night Lords is as ambush attackers.

In terms of rules it would look like:

• Sneak into position using cover in ways that would be near impossible for anyone else in power armour except maybe the Alphas (Infiltrate & Stealth)
• Attack brutally and swiftly while terrorising the victim (Furious charge & Fear)
• If they're showing any determined resistance extract yourself quickly to find easier prey (Hit and run)

On top of this they have night vision of some sort.

I've never read any evidence of bikes being used and while Raptors are mentioned they're still a lot less common than regular CSM in power armour. Also it's mentioned in the books a few times that they'll never enter a fair fight if they can help it and when they do it's usually pretty disastrous for them.

There's no way that I can see GW giving the rules I've outlined above to reflect their fighting style. One thing they could do is give you the ability to remove units from play into reserves (including while in combat) and have them enter or re-enter the game via deep strike to reflect their ambush and run away ethic.

[nathaneal246]

The whole Night Lords ethic is like victory through fear and to do so does mean rules like you have stated being given to them. As for the determined resistance point you bring up, I must disagree because that would mean if they come up against a weaker opponent who manages to take out a couple of models then the unit runs off, na, maybe against SM yeah but the Night Lords are still Astartes, and as I recall in the final book of ADBs fantasic trilogy they do kick the *** out of imperial SM and some elder, though yeah they mostly get killed, but still...

Another point as well I think they are very similar to Raven Guard in how they conduct themselves in battle, fear and confusion behind enemy lines, stealth and infiltrating, sneaking around in the dark, etc, etc...

I think that determined resistance rule would stand against RG if it was put against NL!

[MajorWesJanson]

"Wishlisting" for a CSM book in the style of the upcoming SM codex:
Veteran of the Long War: +1A, PE Marines

Marks:
Mark of Tzeentch: +1 BS, +1 LD, PE: Nurgle
Mark of Nurgle: +1 T, Stubborn, PE: Tzeentch
Mark of Khorne: +1 WS, Furious Charge, PE: Slaanesh
Mark of Slaanesh: +1I, Fleet, PE: Khorne

Legion Tactics:
Black Legion: Chosen may be taken as troops, Terminators are scoring. May take up to 4 Chaos Lords as a single HQ selection.
Iron Warriors: Infantry and Walkers gain Move Through Cover. Walkers, Obliterators, and Havocs gain Tank Hunter and +1 on Building Damage charts. May take up to 4 Warpsmiths in a single HQ slot.
Night Lords: Non-Vehicle models gain the Fear and Night Vision USRs. Raptors and Warp Talons are scoring, Fearless, and may use their jump packs in both the movement and assault phase.
Alpha Legion: Cultists and Chosen gain the Infiltrate and stealth USRs. Opponent must reroll sucessful Pinning and Blind tests.
Word Bearers: Posessed are scoring. Dark Apostles and Chosen may take multiple Marks of Chaoson the same unit.
Death Guard: May only take Mark of Nurgle, may not take Thousand Sons. Close Combat and ranged attacks with bolt weapons and close combat weapons gain the poisoned 5+ rule.
World Eaters: May only take Mark of Khorne, may not take Noise Marines. May reroll hits and wounds in challenges and when rolling on the Boon of Chaos table, may roll 2 and choose 1 result. Non-Vehicles gain the Adamantium Will USR
Thousand Sons: May only take Mark of Tzeentch, may not take Plague Marines. May take up to 4 sorcerers as a single HQ selection. Sorcerers may reroll when choosing powers and failed psychic tests, but if a model would take a wound from Perils of the Warp, replace that model with a spawn instead. Non Vehicles gain the Adamantium Will USR.
Emperor's Children: May only take Mark of Slaanesh, may not take Berzerkers. Non-vehicles gain a 6+ FNP save, and if they would fall back, move up to that distance towards the nearest enemy unit instead, stopping 1" away.